More Treo 800w Details Surface?

800w Q1 2008

looks like a new sprint roadmap has leaked and the REAL follow up to the 700w/wx series won't be released until quarter 1 2008.

"Q1-2008

Treo 800w - The first major improvement to Windows Mobile CDMA Treo units. It should ship before CTIA... averting mobs of press questions as to why CDMA still lacks a Windows Mobile 6 Treo."

http://www.phonenews.com/content/view/2316/1/

Well, at least we know that it is coming and when. Pity the date though, but at least I get to start saving!

Hmm..I dare wonder about the million dollar question, which *may* be related to Q1 2008: Treo Wimax?

Palm was rumored to be working on that (see Engadget in March)

"Palm Gryphon - Treo 500 series, a low-cost, ultra-thin Treo aimed at lower-cost audiences. Expected to retail for $99 with new service agreement."

Is this different from the Centro?? The Centro isn't "ultra-thin", unless they mean narrow.

It is.

As far as "ultra-thin" obviously marketing. But to be fair, we don't know the actual dimensions. From the leaked pics it seemed to be as thick (thin) as your thumb.

It could also be a relative term e.g. it's ultra thin compared to Treos, lol.

hopefully less thick than the much heralded T680!

and the wait begins

Between now & atleast March 08 it's anybodys guess as to what the 800 will come equipped with. I too was hoping for a new treo this year but with this news they better put wimax into this thing. lol. I just hope it comes loaded like the Kaiser.

samkim, I'm pretty sure the Palm Gryphon is the Centro. Even Sprint "unofficially" announced it the other day at their technology summit.

Between now & atleast March 08 it's anybodys guess as to what the 800 will come equipped with. I too was hoping for a new treo this year but with this news they better put wimax into this thing. lol. I just hope it comes loaded like the Kaiser.

I'm thinking just because of the relationship that Sprint and Palm have (a very close one) and the fact Palm needs a "wow" device it would make sense that this would be the case. With Wimax aka Xohm announced and rolling out early 2008 (slightly pushed back from the "end of 2007") it would seem the two are running parallel for release dates.

But like you said, until we hear more...

Edit: here is that Engadget story

"Palm to serve up "ultra thin" WiMAX smartphone this year?"

...won't be released until quarter 1 2008...It should ship before CTIA....

That's April 1st in Vegas. Wow, if the WM6 full-size Treo doesn't ship until next Spring, then the POS II/Linux full-size Treo will be pushed back even further into '08 (Fall '08?)...Colligan wasn't kidding about its release slipping into next year.

the question in my mind will be "what will other devices look like by q108?"

That's April 1st in Vegas. Wow, if the WM6 full-size Treo doesn't ship until next Spring, then the POS II/Linux full-size Treo will be pushed back even further into '08 (Fall '08?)...Colligan wasn't kidding about its release slipping into next year.

I don't think that's the case.

The POSII project is extremely secretive and is Palm's last ditch at reclaiming their glory (imo).

They want that device to be their crown jewel and will keep it under wraps for as long as they can, lest they get copied. I'm sure Sprint has a time-frame but lets not kid ourselves, the WM6 Treo is much easier for them to work with and get out faster than the POSII.

...the WM6 Treo is much easier for them to work with and get out faster than the POSII.

True.

The POSII probably won't be delayed too much. They have to release it next year especially with wimax right around the corner.
However, The 800w could also ship in Jan for all we know but as long as its before CTIA. I just hope the extra wait is going to be worth it.

So in the mean time, what can I get at Sprint? I want WM on it and I dont like anything with antenna sticking out.

Q1-2008

That's about 24 months for an update, isn't it (from the original 700w)? Too bad - I will be long gone by then...too many other choices....(OK, not that anyone really cares that I will be long gone, but I was kinda waiting around to see what & when and I felt compelled to post something tonight).

I am annoyed that its a long time away but at the same time, its a good thing since my contract with Sprint began on labor day when I bought the 700wx. That will at least mean I will be almost 1 1/2 years into their contract so they give it to me as an "upgrade" and extend my contract.

Now...I wonder what specs it has and what it looks like.

[quote=chong67;1332927]So in the mean time, what can I get at Sprint? I want WM on it and I dont like anything with antenna sticking out.

Get a 700wx and put a Zoti antenna on it http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=145872

You can also go with the Sprint HTC Mogul, but it does have a sliding keyboard.

I guess I'll be getting the Mogul then for now.. Q1 '08 is better then nothing.

I'm always cautious about time tables given by users, but it looks like user "comptech2002" from the phonenews.com forum accurately stated the PPC-6800 of Sprint's release this past July, so this latest news/rumor looks to me to be creditable.

Going from my Treo 650 to the Treo 800 will be exciting (I hope I like WM6).

The Post of this latest news:
www.phonenews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2314

If I get the Mogul now, then it will be expensive when the new 800w comes out at Sprint because no discount in the middle of your contract.

I dont know what to do.

....accurately stated the PPC-6800 of Sprint's release this past July, so this latest news/rumor looks to me to be creditable.

Huh? It was easy for him to be accurate in July since the Mogul was released in June! :confused:

If I get the Mogul now, then it will be expensive when the new 800w comes out at Sprint because no discount in the middle of your contract.

I dont know what to do.

I always say - "A Mogul in the hand is worth two 800w's in the rumor mill".

I faced the same thing early last year - buy a T650 or wait for the 700p. I bought the 650 and was glad I did! You might be able to sell the Mogul for a good price and get a 800 when they arrive - or it might worth it to sit on the sidelines for 6 months after the 800 arrives to see what needs to be fixed!

Personally - I am about done with WM anyway - 8830 is in my future.

Huh? It was easy for him to be accurate in July since the Mogul was released in June! :confused:

It was released in July by Sprint to retail stores nationwide to the public. And he posted in early June.

Sigh. I was hoping it would be sooner than that. I can't wait to leave PalmOS behind already. Why won't Sprint just refresh in the meantime with a CDMA version of the 750v? I would swap my 755P for that in a second.

I think what we are all anxious for is the fact that even if it is coming in q1 08 then atleast tell us will the form factor be thinner and better and what kind of features, and this way it makes tons of business sense to keep your customers versus how many people have we read about that are ready to leave? I dont understand how palm conducts business AT ALL....how can they let so many customers down....do a teaser like the iphone did ...do something

Sprint usually sets the timetable for a device to be refreshed/replaced. 24 months is pretty standard for them. Remember, Sprint is the one who orders them and decides what information Palm can tell us. So Palm may want to share with you the details but they are bound by contract not to.

I'm not sure why people keep forgetting that Palm, just like every OEM, is a contracted 3rd party. Sprint pays Palm's bills.

Had Sprint wanted a CDMA 750 WM Treo, they could have easily ordered one. They didn't so you don't get a choice.

Anyways, if my 700wx wasn't still working as perfectly as before this Q1 date might bother me, luckily I can easily go another 6 months.

Beta Test Invitation?

I got a hunch that this is the unit that is being beta tested by some tight lipped (but peeing in their pants) TC'ers.

I'm not sure why people keep forgetting that Palm, just like every OEM, is a contracted 3rd party. Sprint pays Palm's bills. Had Sprint wanted a CDMA 750 WM Treo, they could have easily ordered one.

You are absolutely right.

Palm's "Customers" are the wireless carriers. Palm doesn't care if the wireless carriers throw their Treos in the trash, as long as the sale is booked. The end-user is insignificant. The reason why there is no GPS on a Treo, is not because it is not possible (just look at HTC, Eten etc), but because it would interfere with Sprint's $9.99/month cell-tower triangulation location service. Similarly with Wi-Fi and other features.

From Palm's May 31, 2007 Annual Report, what Palm calls their 4 largest "Customers" (note: end-users are not considered customers):

Sprint = 24%
Verizon = 18%
AT&T/Cingular = 14%
Ingram Micro = 6% (Ingram is a wholesale distributor)

So, the U.S. accounts for 62% of Palm's sales. The remaining 38% of sales must be international carriers & distributors. Interestingly, Sprint/Verizon/AT&T represent 56% of Palm's revenues. Those 3 companies dictate to Palm what they want. The end-user is meaningless.

Whatever it is, I actually want a Palm WM6 at Sprint.

But whatever it is, I cant wait because at VZW now, I am getting unlimited data and 0 minute plan for $40 and my 1 yr is over.

So I order me a Mogul today at Sprint and get on the Sero plan for 500 mins and unlimited data for $30.

So Treo is slow? Maybe Sprint is not asking Treo to ship the 750w to them.

I actually want to stay with Palm because its USA. This HTC is Taiwan. Shame.

The important thing is you locked in the SERO plan. Just sell the Mogul when the 800w comes out if you still want it then--it'll hold its value. The cost difference should be around $250 max, which isn't great but not horrible either.

Q1 2008 for an updated Palm is pretty much a new low for the company. It will continue to lose edge and share if it waits that long. Even if it comes out with a a device with better screens, software and things like gps integrated, by then people will already have bought devices with those features from competitors that have those features right now (like HTC).
Instead we get what? the folio. Wow--talk about the worst tech management since Nortel in 2001.

...I actually want to stay with Palm because its USA. This HTC is Taiwan. Shame.

All Palm's products are made in Tapei.

Q1 2008 for an updated Palm is pretty much a new low for the company. It will continue to lose edge and share if it waits that long. Even if it comes out with a a device with better screens, software and things like gps integrated, by then people will already have bought devices with those features from competitors that have those features right now (like HTC).
Instead we get what? the folio. Wow--talk about the worst tech management since Nortel in 2001.

Well, you could also think of it is this way:

The iPhone doesn't have 3g for two reasons: the network is not widely available yet (sort of lame argument, since there are 3g AT&T devices) and (2) Jobs said that the current 3g chips get awful battery life and the ones they wants aren't ready yet (this is actually true)

Part of developing a device is knowing what you want it to and what specs you want it to meet or exceed. Sometimes you want to put a chip or system in that is (a) not fully ready (b) not able to be mass produced in the numbers you need it for full production.

I'm not saying I know that to be the case but it very well could be. I would hope Palm is going "all out" on this device and sometimes your 3rd party contractors are not ready yet.

Also, taking the wild assumption about a Wimax Treo and saying it's true, Sprint will not want to roll out any devices till that network is up and running in at least a handful of cities. That is not predicted to be the case till early 2008.

I'm just throwing this out there in consideration of the bigger picture. While not necessarily true, I sort of doubt it's Palm just dragging their feet, though who really knows at this point.

I also don't see any amazing new devices coming to Sprint. The Touch is okay, but it'll only work with TeleNav (whoopee do). The Mogul is already there and outdated on Sprint. Another Moto Q rehash (talk about incremental upgrades) and a WM world phone/Black Jack. I think Sprint is hedging their bets now till Wimax rolls out--then you'll see some crazy things happening (hopefully).

As long as they release a device that far exceeds the 700wx then I will be happy. I would hate to see Palm release another crippled WM device like they did with the 700w.

I wonder if VZW will get it around the same time or even earlier that Sprint, like the 700w?

That's a good response. But it's hard to beleive I device I bought years ago has no possibility of being improved at this point?

Aside from GPS the only thing I care about is better resolution and improved processing power and I'd buy it. The iphone is basically like a portable mac I don't need it to do all that stuff at this point. Just something incremental.
Wimax and wifi really are duplicative for too many users to be a game changer --at least not for 2-3 years. They need to save market share now--2-3 years from now Palm won't be in business to worry about wimax if they don't introduce new products.

Well, you could also think of it is this way:

The iPhone doesn't have 3g for two reasons: the network is not widely available yet (sort of lame argument, since there are 3g AT&T devices) and (2) Jobs said that the current 3g chips get awful battery life and the ones they wants aren't ready yet (this is actually true)

Part of developing a device is knowing what you want it to and what specs you want it to meet or exceed. Sometimes you want to put a chip or system in that is (a) not fully ready (b) not able to be mass produced in the numbers you need it for full production.

I'm not saying I know that to be the case but it very well could be. I would hope Palm is going "all out" on this device and sometimes your 3rd party contractors are not ready yet.

Also, taking the wild assumption about a Wimax Treo and saying it's true, Sprint will not want to roll out any devices till that network is up and running in at least a handful of cities. That is not predicted to be the case till early 2008.

I'm just throwing this out there in consideration of the bigger picture. While not necessarily true, I sort of doubt it's Palm just dragging their feet, though who really knows at this point.

I also don't see any amazing new devices coming to Sprint. The Touch is okay, but it'll only work with TeleNav (whoopee do). The Mogul is already there and outdated on Sprint. Another Moto Q rehash (talk about incremental upgrades) and a WM world phone/Black Jack. I think Sprint is hedging their bets now till Wimax rolls out--then you'll see some crazy things happening (hopefully).

...I don't need it to do all that stuff at this point. Just something incremental.
Wimax and wifi really are duplicative for too many users to be a game changer --at least not for 2-3 years.

But incremental updates is exactly what Engadget wrote about yesterday and slamming Palm for and I'd say the overwhelming majority agreed. Virtually no one here wants incremental updates, they want something fresh. I basically agree with you but many others don't.

Wifi vs 3g is not a game change. Wimax is with 10mbps downloads (conservatively; it can theoretically hit 70mbps) which means you can readily trade whole videos with people and finally get real internet speeds. It'll be pretty huge.

I am saying incremental updates 2-3 months ago that should have happened already or put it out now not in 2008. 2008 is way too late. Plenty of other devices are already on the market that do more than what palm wants to do in 2008.

It really is the worst management since Nortel in 2001. Putting their resources into Folio pretty much guaranteed they'd fall behind in their bread and budder which is the Treo.

And Wimax may be a game changer but since there Wimax isn't deployed now who cares? People just want the bascis that people like HTC and Apple have introduced in a Treo. They have not done any major changes in 2 years. Take some of the innvoation done by those companies--stop worrying about wifi and wimax and just put a device out there with some decent upgrades.

Oh an my definition of incremental is
1) Improved processor power including mulitasking with the same or better battery life
2) Screen resolution and size
3) Integrated GPS

Including those changes now--you'd get a majority of users buying the new one. Which is the goal as opposed to buying crappy folios

Im split between dumping the 700wx and getting the Mogul, or waiting patiently for the 800w. At this point in time I am leaning in favor of waiting simple because the 700wx has been such a great phone.

I am saying incremental updates 2-3 months ago that should have happened already or put it out now not in 2008. 2008 is way too late. Plenty of other devices are already on the market that do more than what palm wants to do in 2008.

It really is the worst management since Nortel in 2001. Putting their resources into Folio pretty much guaranteed they'd fall behind in their bread and budder which is the Treo.

And Wimax may be a game changer but since there Wimax isn't deployed now who cares? People just want the bascis that people like HTC and Apple have introduced in a Treo. They have not done any major changes in 2 years. Take some of the innvoation done by those companies--stop worrying about wifi and wimax and just put a device out there with some decent upgrades.

Oh an my definition of incremental is
1) Improved processor power including mulitasking with the same or better battery life
2) Screen resolution and size
3) Integrated GPS

Including those changes now--you'd get a majority of users buying the new one. Which is the goal as opposed to buying crappy folios

Like I said, I understand I where you are coming from.

But as I've previously mentioned, Palm cannot just release a device whenever they feel like it. They are contracted by Sprint to deliver a device in a specific time-frame (pending their approval/testing and FCC clearance; a 3-6 month process in total).

If Sprint contracted them to make a Wimax device, they that's what they make. Palm really has no say in the matter when it comes to CDMA (GSM is more open, so they have some flexibility), they make what they are able and allowed to.

That assumes two things though right?
1) That sprint doesn't want an updated phone to compete with the iphone. A lot of the features I am asking for would make the treo a lot more competive with the iphone. Why would sprint want to prevent that?
2) Even if it's all sprints fault. You guys assume Sprint is the only carrier that carriers Palm devices. T-mobile, Verizon, and ATT can carry treos also.

It's no so much assumption as just fact. It was nearly 2 years between the 6700 and 6800 and I think we can all agree that the Kaiser is much nicer than the 6800, yet Sprint got that and so did Verizon. Speaking of, Verizon (who still hasn't launched the Mogul) was testing it back in December '07.

Sprint knows the secret to beating the iPhone will be their Wimax network, which will be open to any device that can use Wimax (there is talk of free access, but limited bandwidth to 364kb speeds; then a pay model with higher speeds). Think cameras, UMPCs, tablet devices, phones, smartphones, laptops, etc. (I also do not think a Treo would compete with the iPhone: one is enterprise, the other is media)

Sprint is there #1 customer and probably get some exclusives (while they lost the 700w one, they got the better 700wx for awhile). Cinealta posted their numbers:

Sprint = 24%
Verizon = 18%
AT&T/Cingular = 14%
Ingram Micro = 6% (Ingram is a wholesale distributor)

I am not saying that Palm couldn't do better: they could, especially on GSM. But currently that is not their first priority. The international market was really just bridged with the 750.

I know you are a wimax expert and all--but don't you think that makes you a tad bit biased relative to its importance to the Treo 800 issues.

If Palm waits for Wimax to be out for the 800, they deserve to go bankrupt. Seriously. People want devices NOW. Sprint has the best data network today and with Wimax-it has the best network in the future for data. But who cares if you have crappy devices today.
If Palm keeps losing share to HTC, apple and Rim, -it isn't going to matter what Sprint wants since Palm will be out of business or bought out at a fraction of the current already meager value.
Again. Wimax man. Wow. Like. just wow. If I find out palm is waiting on wimax

oh and sprint used to have 100% of the palm market. now its just one of 3 major us customers. Verizon would be more than delighted to take a non wimax palm to challenge the iphone.

I know you are a wimax expert and all--but don't you think that makes you a tad bit biased relative to its importance to the Treo 800 issues.

Probably.

I'm not even confident in saying the 800w will have Wimax, just that it may be a possibility.

My main point is that Palm really is not the one who calls the shots here but it's the carriers. I disagree with this model as I believe the carriers should be more like ISPs (GSM is close to this, but you still have the lock/unlocked thing).

The fact is, the CDMA market has the fastest and cheapest network, yet are always about 1 to 2 generations behind in technology. Name me one CDMA phone that is cutting edge. That new Moto Q on Verizon is barely and upgrade.

It's the business model that should be vilified, not so much Palm HTC or any OEM. This is what made Apple special: they bullied the hell out of Verizon (who said no) and AT&T (who said yes) and they got 100% control over the device design, specifications, branding, services (none besides Apples), selling, etc. It worked for them but I bet these carriers will not allow that model to go forward, since it's all about them loosing control, and in turn, revenue from their dumb services e.g. Music store, V-Cast, etc.

Who knows, maybe even with an open model Palm would still be behind. But without that in place it's very hard to say. If you ever speak to these companies, they don't speak highly of working with Sprint, Verizon, etc.

...This is what made Apple special: they bullied the hell out of Verizon (who said no) and AT&T (who said yes) and they got 100% control over the device design, specifications, branding, services (none besides Apples), selling, etc.

Good point. Reportedly, Apple also gets 10% of the voice/data plan income (for iPhones).

The business model is bad but people like Apple and google will change that.

As far as CDMA technologies that are innovation. The HTC mogul -for about a month was leading edge. GSM tends to have a more open architecture because of simm cards and europe is GSM. What GSM phones are so bleeding edge other than the iphone? The new HTC Kaiser? i admit that's a nice one. It has GPS which would make me happy.

While I think carrier pushback is a factor, I think its an argument mostly used by Palm apologists. If it's gotten to the point where they can't innovate because carriers won't let them put out new phones, they should return the cash to shareholders and exit the business.

The model could be changed though. The GSM/SIM thing is one excuse but no talks about the dirty secret: CDMA SIM cards. They exists, they work, they uninterpretable with GSM too. Google --> R-UIM.

As far as innovation, Palm actually doesn't too bad. They sold 750,000 Treos in the last quarter, which is not bad for a company of about 1,200. They do better than Motorola who can't turn a profit in the business.

It's not so much "palm apologists" as I think the same arguments can be made about Motorola (the billionth iteration of the RAZR?), HTC (6800 is quite outdated and has low memory), Samsung (only the Blackjack is relevant). Symbian is barely here in the U.S., I don't know why. There just isn't much choice.

This all comes down to this: if you don't like Palm, buy something else. If you own stock in Palm or Sprint, pull it.

What do you mean CDMA have Simm cards.

I don't think the 6800 was out dated. it did have kinda low memory though and really low battery life imo. Rimm, HTC, Apple, Samsung and Motorola are all providing good substributes. The Nokia N95 is killer. I guess you are just saying people will go to all these competitors, i'm saying it's a shame as palm used to 100% of this market. My point is it will be zero soon if it doesn't do something fast. And it's not the carriers fault..it's up to Palm to change the rules just like Apple did.

Right now I am looking at the new Kaiser or maybe going back to the blackberry. Especially one with gps in it.

Probably.

I'm not even confident in saying the 800w will have Wimax, just that it may be a possibility.

I doubt that the 800w will have wimax since there were rumors that it would be released for VZW this month(never panned out), and VZW does not have any WiMax plans announced. Unless they plan to surprise us or Palm gives us two versions one with WiMax for spirnt and another with WiFi for VZW?

The fact is, the CDMA market has the fastest and cheapest network, yet are always about 1 to 2 generations behind in technology. Name me one CDMA phone that is cutting edge. That new Moto Q on Verizon is barely and upgrade.

If you count the Moto Razr2 Sprint has it out a few weeks before the others do, granted the CDMA versions get the lower color internal screen while rest of the features are the same. There is Perl2 if you count that. VZW is getting it first, unless the version of the Perl they are getting is not the Perl2, but Perl1.5? You could also say the 700w and 700wx, but that was not to cutting edge. But, yeah CDMA gets the last of everything.

Personally I am holding out for a device, that is the same form factor as the Treo 700 series, Moto Q, or Samsung Blackjack, but comes with WiFi and is WM6 on a CDMA carrier. The HTC Iris or what ever the new Treo with wifi is maybe the device for me. Then again my friend just got the BB Curve and that looks pretty tempting specially when it comes out with WiFi.

I doubt that the 800w will have wimax since there were rumors that it would be released for VZW this month(never panned out), and VZW does not have any WiMax plans announced. Unless they plan to surprise us or Palm gives us two versions one with WiMax for spirnt and another with WiFi for VZW?

Funny you say that.

It's very possible to do this. If you follow the Intel chip news, they demonstrated a Wimax/Wifi dual chip in 2006. In fact, it seems that most embedded chip developers for Wimax (Intel, TeleCIS Wireless, NextWave, probably Motorola, Samsung) are opting to make these chips dual nature, since it keeps production costs down and allows simple transitions between those two networks.

So Palm (Samsung, Motorola) could all makes these devices that have both on the chip, but just Wifi enabled.

Well that is some interesting news. I wonder if you get a device like that, but for VZW you think it is possible to unlock the WiMax feature and use it on a WiMax network with out an issue? Hmmm

Bingo. Very possible since the Sprint system is open to any wimax device.

But, alas, we're heading down the road of speculation! :p

Wow...you just won't stop talking about Wimax.
Please stop hijacking threads about new treo products to push your wimax schlock.
Wimax is a great technology but this is for speculation on the release of the treo 800w.

umm--it may HAVE WiMax (XHOM) in it.... so he's not pushing it on us, he's merely speculating that it will come out around the time that Sprint lights its WiMax network up...

:shake: when the heck did TC become so much like HoFo with all the criticism that goes on in a SPECULATIVE thread anyway?? :shake:

He isn't speculating at all. He's trying to hype the bloody standard. Look at his sig-he's got money in it. it's either his job or he works for some group. Every post and he is replying--oh and it could have wimax and wouldn't that be awesome. Palm can't even get wifi in the thing and fired their entire wifi group. I doubt they will get wifi in by Q1 let alone wimax.

Look at his sig-he's got money in it.

WM (windows mobile) isn't the only OS that can take advantage of WiMax.

He isn't speculating at all. He's trying to hype the bloody standard. Look at his sig-he's got money in it. it's either his job or he works for some group. Every post and he is replying--oh and it could have wimax and wouldn't that be awesome. Palm can't even get wifi in the thing and fired their entire wifi group. I doubt they will get wifi in by Q1 let alone wimax.

Since when did this turn into a personal attack? Way to bring this thread down.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. You are not forced to read nor respond and yet you do. And have money in it? I own no stock, I sit on no boards, I don't work for Sprint and I don't develop software or hardware. I'm a grad student working in linguistics, if you must know.

What has that to do with anything?

Please stop hijacking threads about new treo products to push your wimax schlock.

Flag down a moderator, otherwise mind your business.

Wimax is a great technology but this is for speculation on the release of the treo 800w.

Umm...read post #2 and then the link I provide in post #7 to the Engadget story saying that Palm was working on a ultra-thin Treo with Wimax. It is quite relevant.

Every thread in "Future Treos" is speculating. That's the point. I've been very clear that 's what I'm doing.

[quote=gadgetfreaky;1335335]Wow...you just won't stop talking about Wimax.
Please stop hijacking threads about new treo products to push your wimax schlock.
Wimax is a great technology but this is for speculation on the release of the treo 800w.

[quote=gadgetfreaky;1335340]He isn't speculating at all. He's trying to hype the bloody standard. Look at his sig-he's got money in it. it's either his job or he works for some group. Every post and he is replying--oh and it could have wimax and wouldn't that be awesome. Palm can't even get wifi in the thing and fired their entire wifi group. I doubt they will get wifi in by Q1 let alone wimax.

Obviously you don't read many of the posts he has done here and at numerous other forums. He is one of top 5 people I would trust for help out of all the forums I visit. His contributions and help are very well known, so get your facts straight before you start attacking someone like him.

Please check out Mal's track record before you attack him. I believe in what he "speculates".

Look at his sig...

I have and can't see anything remotely connected to WiMax in it, there's links to two Windows Mobile related sites if that's what you're referring to :confused:

He's one of a small number of people on here who understand the concept of constructive criticism, so I for one appreciate what he has so to say.

Look at his sig-he's got money in it.

You think the "WM" in WMExperts stands for WiMax? lol.

Malatesta is one of the most enjoyable guys to read around these forums because of his thorough knowledge and tempered attitude.

Look if he isn't a some kind of wimax plant..then my apologies. Maybe he just really loves Wimax.
But in his threads he kept explaining how the delay was probably due to them wanting to include wimax which just is very unlikely. Also from a Treo user-if I found out that was true--that would be really bad (and unlikely even for bad palm management). it's a really bad trade off to hold off innovation in a device for 2 years just for wimax.

Then all this stuff about how CDMA has simm card technology--which just isn't true.

What do you mean CDMA have Simm cards.

I did what Mal said, I Googled R-UIM and this is one of the first articles that came up. CDMA DO have Simm cards.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-ruim-card.htm

No.
Simm cards or anything trying to be a simm card is not deployed in the United States or broadly internationally period.
A GSM simm card isn't hard to design-its just a magnetic strip with your phone number on it.
So obviously anyone could design one if they wanted to.

The question is actually having it deployed in your phone. The only reason GSM has it is because the governments that regulated that GSM be the formal standard in Europe have it. It simply doesn't exist in the US. show me a link to a cell phone that uses a simm card.

This is some really basic stuff. I was the #25 employee at what is now T-Mobile. I know what a Simm card is--it doesnt exist as a reality for CDMA users and it's misleading to suggest otherwise.

First off: thanks to everyone for their support against Gadgetfreaky's personal and unwarranted attack. :thumbsup:

Gadgetfreak: you are quite paranoid.

I've cited my sources for believing that Palm is working on a Wimax device and drawn parallels betwen the Q1 Treo 800w release date and the rollout of Wimax. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine. That's why it's speculation. I see no reason for the personal attacks since I've responded to all your posts in which you asked me questions. Too bad if you don't like the answers.

Re: CDMA and SIM cards

I never said we have them NOW in our devices or said they are deployed in the U.S. [COLOR="SandyBrown">You just cannot read for comprehension[/COLOR]. :thumbsdn: What I was saying is that the model could be changed: that is CDMA could use them if the carriers opted too. Lets look at the quote again:

The model could be changed though. The GSM/SIM thing is one excuse but no talks about the dirty secret: CDMA SIM cards. They exist, they work, they uninterpretable with GSM too. Google --> R-UIM.

Why is this controversial? The technology exists for CDMA/GSM interoperability SIM cards. If people knew about it (and Congress got involved) there could be changes made here in the U.S.

Now lets quote that article slbailey1 found on Google;

The RUIM card provides flexibility to switch phones by simply removing the RUIM card and slipping it into another card-enabled phone. The new phone would then be able to make and receive calls on the user's account without having to go through the carrier for activation. A user could, for example, have several phones and switch between them, borrow a friend's phone to make a call with his RUIM card, or even switch to another carrier and keep his or her old phone. The new carrier would simply issue the customer a new RUIM card to use in his or her existing phone. The only requirements are that the phone is unlocked and compatible with the frequency band of the new carrier.

Savvy CDMA users in the United States have been anxiously awaiting the arrival of RUIM cards, particularly since GSM has become more competitive in the American market. The SIM card used with GSM phones offers many distinct advantages to the consumer over the traditional proprietary handsets required by CDMA technology. A RUIM card would make CDMA more attractive to consumers and would also open the door to better roaming contracts between CDMA and GSM networks, allowing the best possible global coverage for all cellular customers.

The RUIM card was developed by the CDMA Development Group and 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP). It was approved by the Telecommunications Industry Association (TIA) and has been used in China since 2002.

Please read more closely next time and if you don't like my posts, stop responding to them. Good day.

gadgetfreaky, Malatesta is like an OG around these parts so stop freakin trashing the thread. If you don't like what Mal's saying then don't respond, it's quite simple.
Remember this IS a thread about the 800w after all so until Sprint/Palm start shipping all we can do is speculate about it's features (and yes at this point wimax is a strong possibility).

Mal, interesting hypothesis. Personally, CDMA in the US needs this more than GSM, but, if Congress's beautiful panel that had talked about the iPhone and cellular standards got a hold of that info, then changes would happen, and quickly.

Back to the topic, if WiMax isn't ready, or in such a way that makes testing a suitable wimax device viable, then a delay could happen. Would be a PR snaffu to announce/release a device when the network isnt ready. Nevertheless, the hope is that Palm is ready, and the network isnt for Sprint folks.

oh yea, until about a year or so ago, Sprint was a major investor to Palm because the of the Treo series. Part of that investment allowed for the EVDO advancements in that lineup, the other part of that was the exclusivity agreements. So its possible here, as it was then, that Palm, Sprint, Nokia and others are pushing like crazy on this.

It's Friday and there hasn't been a leak yet. This could be a quiet weekend.

First of all. I didn't personally attack you. I said your post about Simm cards was misleading. You said we have Simm cards for CDMA. We just don't have that. Could all the CDMA phones be modified and the Switches HLRS and other network software be modified to use them. Sure. Could congress make a law to do it. Sure they could make a law to require it--it's just misleading and stupid to even speculate that they will. Note I am not calling you stupid, I'm just saying the idea that you are proposing is. And it's very misleading.

Also I really can't see everyone turning in their phones based on some Congressional law to get the phones modified to recognize Simm cards. I mean--think about that- can you see why people think that just doesn't represent at all what could possibly happen in the wireless industry? And if we were to do this internationally as your article suggests. That's what a billion CDMA handsets. Times say 30 bucks to modify each. Plus a few billion to rewrite the NOC software. Speculation can be useful but it has to have some basis in reality. I come to these forums but lately they have been dead but if I see ideas that are not based in reality and bring us further away from understand what is actually happening--I am going to give the alternate view.

Also The idea that Palm is holding off on innovating is becuase the carriers are forcing them not to, is similar in its quality. I've negotiated wireless vendor agreements with a carrier. Do we have a lot of influence ---yes, and CDMA carriers even have more because the phones are a little more portable. But could we stop a manufacturing company --or impede them from innovating. Not really. They'd just put the phone on the other carriers. Which by the way Palm has done.

Even all that aside. Like say--possibly the assertions that you are making could be true. It's really scary to think that anyone would think of holding up innovating on the Treo to introduce Wimax. Is it an important feature--possibly yes. But I foudn when I had the mogul--I really didn't use Wifi at all since it was much easier just to use Sprint's data network. i.e. I found the the feature duplicative. An extra data network on top of Sprints 1xrtt I found to be very very niche. I am a huge data user and I would wager 1 in 10 would find it useful in the current conext of how data is used and priced.

One of the biggest reasons I found the idea unsound and misleading aside from the fact you kept oddly bringing it up--is I bet Palm reads these forums. I would hate for them to think all of a sudden it was a make or break feature or for other readers to jump on that bandwagon. It's just not a good one.

First of all. I didn't personally attack you. I said your post about Simm cards was misleading.

I am referring to this:

Wow...you just won't stop talking about Wimax.
Please stop hijacking threads about new treo products to push your wimax schlock.

He isn't speculating at all. He's trying to hype the bloody standard. Look at his sig-he's got money in it. it's either his job or he works for some group.

Those are some heavy accusations. :shake:

You said we have Simm cards for CDMA. We just don't have that.

I never said that. Show the quote. I said the technology existed.

it's just misleading and stupid to even speculate that they will. Note I am not calling you stupid, I'm just saying the idea that you are proposing is. And it's very misleading.

Telus (who has virtually the same network as Sprint) evidently was heading down that rode with their CDMA and iDEN network. Quallcom's chip is evidently has "support for all standard CDMA authentication protocols". Furthermore, I'm just stating it is and was an option for Sprint and Verizon, not that is was going to happen or that is was likely.

Also I really can't see everyone turning in their phones based on some Congressional law to get the phones modified to recognize Simm cards.

I never said such a thing. This is all you now. Ever here of phase ins? Didn't Congress mandate the conversion to all-digital television broadcasting by 2009? Who owns those airwaves?

It's really scary to think that anyone would think of holding up innovating on the Treo to introduce Wimax. Is it an important feature--possibly yes. But I foudn when I had the mogul--I really didn't use Wifi at all since it was much easier just to use Sprint's data network. i.e. I found the the feature duplicative. An extra data network on top of Sprints 1xrtt I found to be very very niche. I am a huge data user and I would wager 1 in 10 would find it useful in the current conext of how data is used and priced.

Sprint is [URL="http://www2.sprint.com/mr/news_dtl.do?id=17800">investing [COLOR="Red">$5 Billion dollars[/COLOR][/URL] into Wimax and you dare to wager a whole 1 in 10? Wow, gutsy. You act like this is just an addon for them.

I won't take your opinion seriously, thank you.

..is I bet Palm reads these forums. I would hate for them to think all of a sudden it was a make or break feature or for other readers to jump on that bandwagon. It's just not a good one.

They do and I even occasionally talk to them directly as well.

But seriously...I, nor anyone else here, has any real power to sway them. Thanks for the ego inflate though. :rolleyes: C'mon already.

How are those heavy accusations? Or a personal attack? Just my opinion of your ideas which as I've said I think are ill founded--and explained exactly why they are not realistic.

Sprint spending 5 billion on Wimax (I bet it's more) doesn't have anything to do with Palms failure to do anything innovative in 2 years.

Here is where you started bring up subcriber identiy modules. "The model could be changed though. The GSM/SIM thing is one excuse but no talks about the dirty secret: CDMA SIM cards. They exist

I can make one in my home office in a busy afternoon, it still makes the use of the word "exist" a stretch in the context of a widely applicable CDMA technology. Particularly in the US.

You made the point to support the case it was primarily a CDMA issue and if they just had interchangable phones like GSM we'd all have neat features. And then you went on a blather about how CDMA phones being 2 generations behind. Guess what, other than maybe the N95 they really just are not. And any advantage nokia has is maybe 3-4 months rather than 2 generations.

As for congress phase ins...that is another ignorant statement. You still don't understand you have to rewrite all the NOC and switch software as well as the software on the phones. . That's billions of dollars and 5-10 years of development time. Are you going to have two versions of phones existing at the same time..so two sets of software overhead everwhere?

That's what I mean by your points have a lack of basis in reality and misleading people here. That's not a personal attack, that's me explaing why your ideas lack realism.

These ideas also represent a lack of histrocial context on how Sim cards and GSM was formed. They mandated the GSM standard at the government level. There are several different forms of CDMA --some are called CMDA some are called other things...none of them other than the government approved version work in Europe.

And any kind of late stage effort by the US government to all of a sudden decide this stuff a) is too late b) won't work or c) are too expensive and it's why I think your ideas are naive and ill founded on carrier relationships with vendors, government and reality.

Oh and if you really wanted to have Sim cards with CDMA there is a way for Congress or the WTB to effectively do it without doing what you are suggesting. They won't ever do it tho...

And as for me saying your ideas were super powerful --it was more alarming. I was really surprised to see an idea so ill founded and frankly scary in a place here. Especially with such a high post count. Makes me worry what else you've written.

And again--if you are not employed by some Wimax agency or organization I apologize. But boy it sure did look like it. I would urge you to try the mogul if you have not. That convinced me (although it may not convicne all) that wifi and even wimax really have limited value given how Sprint is currently pricing and packaging data service. I see Wimax as more a competitor to DSL and Cable Data and Id' actually be curious to see if you views on wimax and the Treo are vehement and strong as they are now once you've tried it.

I

First of all. I didn't personally attack you. I said your post about Simm cards was misleading. You said we have Simm cards for CDMA. We just don't have that. Could all the CDMA phones be modified and the Switches HLRS and other network software be modified to use them. Sure. Could congress make a law to do it. Sure they could make a law to require it--it's just misleading and stupid to even speculate that they will. Note I am not calling you stupid, I'm just saying the idea that you are proposing is. And it's very misleading.

Also I really can't see everyone turning in their phones based on some Congressional law to get the phones modified to recognize Simm cards. I mean--think about that- can you see why people think that just doesn't represent at all what could possibly happen in the wireless industry? And if we were to do this internationally as your article suggests. That's what a billion CDMA handsets. Times say 30 bucks to modify each. Plus a few billion to rewrite the NOC software. Speculation can be useful but it has to have some basis in reality. I come to these forums but lately they have been dead but if I see ideas that are not based in reality and bring us further away from understand what is actually happening--I am going to give the alternate view.

Also The idea that Palm is holding off on innovating is becuase the carriers are forcing them not to, is similar in its quality. I've negotiated wireless vendor agreements with a carrier. Do we have a lot of influence ---yes, and CDMA carriers even have more because the phones are a little more portable. But could we stop a manufacturing company --or impede them from innovating. Not really. They'd just put the phone on the other carriers. Which by the way Palm has done.

Even all that aside. Like say--possibly the assertions that you are making could be true. It's really scary to think that anyone would think of holding up innovating on the Treo to introduce Wimax. Is it an important feature--possibly yes. But I foudn when I had the mogul--I really didn't use Wifi at all since it was much easier just to use Sprint's data network. i.e. I found the the feature duplicative. An extra data network on top of Sprints 1xrtt I found to be very very niche. I am a huge data user and I would wager 1 in 10 would find it useful in the current conext of how data is used and priced.

One of the biggest reasons I found the idea unsound and misleading aside from the fact you kept oddly bringing it up--is I bet Palm reads these forums. I would hate for them to think all of a sudden it was a make or break feature or for other readers to jump on that bandwagon. It's just not a good one.

WOW! Show some mercy next time and use a little lube. LOL

What if the delay is just because Palm wants Rev.A, AGPS, and a bug-free (haha) phone? We all read about how Sprint almost didn't release the 6800 because it had so many problems but decided to release it anyway, bugs and all. After the beating that Palm has taken over the failed 700p updates on Sprint and Verizon, maybe they're just being a little more cautious this time? I know...just wishful thinking.

gadgetfreaky,

After all your verbose and meandering posts, it still does not argue against my main points:

(1) The delay of the 800w may be related to Wimax

(2) CDMA does have a SIM equivalent*

(3) Carriers still block innovation

Your opinions that a delay for Wimax is a bad thing for Palm, Sprint and whomever is actually irrelevant to point #1.

Your personal experience with not using Wifi on the 6800 is also irrelevant (Btw, I bought a 6700 in Oct '05 so I know about Wifi on a cell phone. My thoughts? Not necessary but a nice option.).

Your arguments against the plausibility of the a U.S. adoption of RUIM is immaterial, as the point I was making is that there is, technically, an alternative, and CDMA could be (could have been) a much more open system.

You do not agree that carriers should operate more like ISPs where you bring your phone and pay for what you want?

Carriers do limit innovation, specifically features, that are available: case in point

- GPS: Sprint has one type of smartphone with GPS: BlackBerry. Does HTC not make any WM devices with GPS? Why no GPS on the Mogul?

- Wifi: Sprint has the 6700 (disc.) and now the 6800. That's it.

- Why is the new Curve Wifi or GPS, but not both? (True, the 8820 does...then again, its GSM not CDMA. Surprise.)

As of right now, there is NO Curve that will have WiFi AND GPS. Carriers will have access to both the WiFi and GPS Curves, however, RIM doesn't see many carriers carrying both. They believe it will be either one or the other.

(source)

Plus, like Palm, some of these OEMs are quite slow. The 6800 was spotted on Verizon in February (shown on data sheets even earlier, in Dec '06) and here it is August: no device. No EvDO RevA either, even though it is widely available in a lot of markets now.

*China Unicom adopted R-UIM and about 40 other CDMA carriers in India and S.America. Is that a large percentage? No, since CDMA is already a tiny portion of the market.

I don't know the technical issues with implementing R-UIM but at least in China, who have a standardized 1x/EvDO network, said this in 2004:

The R-UIM technology which is based on the CDMA EV-DO network, a third generation (3G) of mobile telecommunications system, is likely to win official appraisal at the end of this year...

"There is only little or almost no change to the CDMA operators network system, but a minor change to handset software to enable the R-UIM system," Zhang said.

--Zhang Zhijiang, director of China Unicom's Technology Department

So I guess China can do it, but not the U.S. Hey, maybe he was lying. Maybe not. Either way, I don't see RUIM going anywhere, which is a shame, but my point is still valid.

[SIZE="4">Stop it - both of you! [/SIZE]

I'm here to read about new Treo developments. I don't want half the thread taken up by bickering. Carry this on by PM is you must.

:o 100% agreed. My apologies to the community.

Use a 6800 on Sprint's network before formulating a view if you still thing a 2nd data network is important. You won't use 802.11 the way you think you will unless you live in an area with very bad data coverage which will be the last to get wimax anyway.

Try it for a week and get back to us.

Just had to have the last word......

[SIZE="4">Stop it - both of you! [/SIZE]

I'm here to read about new Treo developments. I don't want half the thread taken up by bickering. Carry this on by PM is you must.

Well you gotta admit new Treo development is relatively slow atm. :shake:

Use a 6800 on Sprint's network before formulating a view if you still thing a 2nd data network is important. You won't use 802.11 the way you think you will unless you live in an area with very bad data coverage which will be the last to get wimax anyway.

Try it for a week and get back to us.

Perhaps you want to transfer files from your home network, or watch slingbox in bed. Sprints evdo network is great and generally fast, but I could see where there would be times when it would be nice to have the ability for wifi as well, if only to view your local shares.

Regarding the WiFi vs no WiFi argument: when I had my Mogul, I didn't use WiFi that much while in the US. However, the couple of times I did it was extremely useful and convenient, it made me very happy to have it.

But that's nothing compared with the complete necessity of wifi when traveling abroad. I went on two business trips to Europe with my Mogul and the WiFi made me forget there was no CDMA signal. I could check all my email accounts, RSS feeds, surf, and use Skype for phone calls when necessary. All the times I've been there with my Treo I have to carry it around like dead weight.

At this point I would be extremely disappointed if I didn't have WiFi in a new phone.

But that's nothing compared with the complete necessity of wifi when traveling abroad. I went on two business trips to Europe with my Mogul and the WiFi made me forget there was no CDMA signal. I could check all my email accounts, RSS feeds, surf, and use Skype for phone calls when necessary. All the times I've been there with my Treo I have to carry it around like dead weight.

Now that's one of the most interesting uses for WiFi on a CDMA device. Perhaps you already had Skype for other reasons and can't go with GSM+intl roaming, but it seems like Wifi+Skype would get expensive compared with a extra GSM phone with a global sim card (my situation).

Regarding the WiFi vs no WiFi argument: when I had my Mogul....

Sounds like you had good success with the Mogul - why do you no longer have it?

Now that's one of the most interesting uses for WiFi on a CDMA device. Perhaps you already had Skype for other reasons and can't go with GSM+intl roaming, but it seems like Wifi+Skype would get expensive compared with a extra GSM phone with a global sim card (my situation).

Not sure I follow you - are you saying that a GSM+Int'l roaming phone in Europe is cheaper than WiFi and free Skype? I thought WiFi was fairly available there and was not expensive when it was. Skype is free - well if you are Mogul to PC. When in Japan, Skype was the only way I called home.

Not saying that because I honestly don't know, just curious and hadn't tried that combination before. When I'm traveling, I'm mainly using corporate intranet and hotel WiFi.

Assuming you'd have to pay at every hotspot to get Wifi, I just wondered if that got more expensive than intl roaming. Obviously it would depend on how intl roaming minutes you used and at some point, one outweighs the other. On the other hand, if you have a corporate iPass account, that helps with the wifi cost and mobility.

My desire would be to initiate a phone call in my home and be able to continue it to the airport, aboard my flight and upon reaching a remote international destination (while the signal automatically and seemlessly transfers from CDMA to Wifi to WiMax and back to GSM).

I understand the desire, but wouldn't that also remove all excuses for being "not available"? ;) :hmm:

Ha ha, LOL. Good one!

My desire would be to initiate a phone call in my home and be able to continue it to the airport, aboard my flight and upon reaching a remote international destination (while the signal automatically and seemlessly transfers from CDMA to Wifi to WiMax and back to GSM).

And that is one hell of a loooong call too! :)

Sounds like you had good success with the Mogul - why do you no longer have it?

Not sure I follow you - are you saying that a GSM+Int'l roaming phone in Europe is cheaper than WiFi and free Skype? I thought WiFi was fairly available there and was not expensive when it was. Skype is free - well if you are Mogul to PC. When in Japan, Skype was the only way I called home.

Is Skype on a mobile phone a legitimate option? I thought that it was speakerphone or wired earpiece-only when using Skype. That would get really old, really fast.

On a lot of WM devices you can route the audio to a BT headset--that works. Not on a 700w Treo though.

Now that's one of the most interesting uses for WiFi on a CDMA device. Perhaps you already had Skype for other reasons and can't go with GSM+intl roaming, but it seems like Wifi+Skype would get expensive compared with a extra GSM phone with a global sim card (my situation).

Well, not if you're working with free or authorized WiFi. I was part of the sponsorship team for a large event and so had free access to all WiFi networks. It was perfect.

An extra GSM phone is something I've used in the past as well, but that won't interface with my VPN, corporate email, and all the other stuff.

Sounds like you had good success with the Mogul - why do you no longer have it?

Tons of issues. The Mogul is a complete mess as a phone, in my experience.

- I didn't like the keyboard at all, and you can't use it one handed no matter what you do.
- Call quality was by far the worst I've ever had in any phone, ever. People had a very hard time understanding what I said, in any condition (headset, phone, voip, anything)
- The actual phonecall interface is one of the worst ones I've ever used - there is no on-screen feedbback for anything except the basic call: it will not identify a second caller, it will not indicate if you're on a second call, or in conference, etc. And BTW, you use the same hardware key to switch between all modes, and you never know what mode that is. It's just beyond stupid.
- Bluetooth headsets sounded way worse than even on my old 650.
- The ridiculous number of buttons on the device (13) compared ot how useful they actually are.
- No mute switch like on the Treos. Muting via software didn't really mute everything and I would still get sounds for some alerts (which are also full of bugs)
- There was also no actual keylock to speak of - the phone would turn itself one whenever it wanted and start doing crazy stuff in my pocket, like repeatedly calling contacts.
- Battery life is horrendous compared to Treos, and the phone is really stupid when it comes to surviving in a roaming area. The battery won't last more than 6-7 hours in a low signal area, period, and that's turning the screen brightness to 10%, turning off bluetooth and incoming beams. My Treos will last through the day no matter what.
- Screen is nearly invisible in daylight
- Low memory make it so you're seeing out of memory errors quite often
- You have to keep running a bunch of software just to try and make up for all the stupid issues
- The camera uses a ton of memory for some reason so I'd have to start quitting applications if I wanted to take a photo, which ususally kills the moment.
- No video drivers make video performance piss-poor for a WM6 device in its class. For example, it will only record video at *one quarter* the resolution of the Treo, and very badly.

That said, WM6 feels like a far superior environment to PalmOS, because it is. Not UI-wise, but definitely on all technical aspects, and going back to PalmOS feels like jumping back a decade.

Other people's experience witht he Mogul hasn't been so negative, but I've also noticed other people will learn to tolerate the craziest things...

Tons of issues. The Mogul is a complete mess as a phone, in my experience.

I don't own a Mogul, but one other thing i noticed when I compared it alongside the Treo 755, was that the speaker was Paltry. In both voice calling, and streaming music, the Mogul speaker was barely audible at full-blast. Further, the quality of the speaker was tinny and small, compared to the Treo speaker.

Tons of issues. The Mogul is a complete mess as a phone, in my experience.

- I didn't like the keyboard at all, and you can't use it one handed no matter what you do.
- Call quality was by far the worst I've ever had in any phone, ever. People had a very hard time understanding what I said, in any condition (headset, phone, voip, anything)
- The actual phonecall interface is one of the worst ones I've ever used - there is no on-screen feedbback for anything except the basic call: it will not identify a second caller, it will not indicate if you're on a second call, or in conference, etc. And BTW, you use the same hardware key to switch between all modes, and you never know what mode that is. It's just beyond stupid.
- Bluetooth headsets sounded way worse than even on my old 650.
- The ridiculous number of buttons on the device (13) compared ot how useful they actually are.
- No mute switch like on the Treos. Muting via software didn't really mute everything and I would still get sounds for some alerts (which are also full of bugs)
- There was also no actual keylock to speak of - the phone would turn itself one whenever it wanted and start doing crazy stuff in my pocket, like repeatedly calling contacts.
- Battery life is horrendous compared to Treos, and the phone is really stupid when it comes to surviving in a roaming area. The battery won't last more than 6-7 hours in a low signal area, period, and that's turning the screen brightness to 10%, turning off bluetooth and incoming beams. My Treos will last through the day no matter what.
- Screen is nearly invisible in daylight
- Low memory make it so you're seeing out of memory errors quite often
- You have to keep running a bunch of software just to try and make up for all the stupid issues
- The camera uses a ton of memory for some reason so I'd have to start quitting applications if I wanted to take a photo, which ususally kills the moment.
- No video drivers make video performance piss-poor for a WM6 device in its class. For example, it will only record video at *one quarter* the resolution of the Treo, and very badly.

That said, WM6 feels like a far superior environment to PalmOS, because it is. Not UI-wise, but definitely on all technical aspects, and going back to PalmOS feels like jumping back a decade.

Other people's experience witht he Mogul hasn't been so negative, but I've also noticed other people will learn to tolerate the craziest things...

Nice summary. That's exactly what I found with my Mogul. I really wanted to love the phone because I like the larger screen size and the "geek factor" of WM6, but the Mogul is probably the single worst phone that I've ever used. Hack after hack after hack and still buggy with worthless BT.

The one good thing is that all of the problems (outside of form factor issues for some people) seem to be software related. The phone radio software, the BT software, phone app software, WM6, etc should all be fixable by HTC and Sprint. In theory.

It really seems to be night or day with the Mogul on call QUALITY. Some say it is great, better than the Treo or the Q or whatever, others hate it. But it was the same with the Treo and the Q when I was shopping for each of those devices. I guess it is really up to me as to whether the Mogul call quality is enough good or not.

I been using the Mogul for 3 days now. It seems to be OK with me.

I call my dad (74 yrs old) just now, put it on speakerphone and thru the phone, he say its fine and can hear me.

I pair with bluetooth and I hear some minor static noise.

Agile Messenger runs great on it. Pdanet runs great too.

Run Skype Beta on it too! I call my uncle in Canada thru data and there are static on it.

Battery life is great! This battery is hugh.

I will be selling my Q and x51V next week.

WM6 is so much better than WM5.

I want the Treo 755w with WM6 on it for Sprint, but where is it???

Tons of issues. The Mogul is a complete mess as a phone, in my experience.

That mirrors my experience with the HTC TyTN (older, GSM, same form factor). It only lasted 3 weeks, as I missed my old Treo 600!

I'm currently using a Nokia E61, but I'm thinking about moving to a WM6 Treo 750 if there is not going to be an 800 anytime soon.

Everyone is so confident that the 800w actually has its on sub-forum now.

Are you sure ???

Will it have mini USB port on the phone?

ok its Q1..where is it??

It isn't Q1 EVERYWHERE ... YET.

Itll be out in a half hour when it is.

Be patient, it is only a few hours into 2008, we might have to wait until March 31st to get it.

So, we know some of the specs, like 320*320 screen, wi-fi and so on, but..

Does anybody know if it will be CDMA or GSM (like treo750) phone?

PS Oh, and also, what about a camera? Will it be as crappy as on treo 750? C'mon Palm buy some 3.2 AF camera modules from SonyEricsson.

Will it have the mini USB port?

So, we know some of the specs, like 320*320 screen, wi-fi and so on, but..

Does anybody know if it will be CDMA or GSM (like treo750) phone?

PS Oh, and also, what about a camera? Will it be as crappy as on treo 750? C'mon Palm buy some 3.2 AF camera modules from SonyEricsson.

If you take a look at the other threads in this forum (especially the sticky one), you will see the giveaway is for a Treo 800w and Sprint is mentioned as the likely carrier, so that means CDMA. A GSM version will likely be released at some point but as to when, only Palm knows that ATM.

Will it have the mini USB port?

If you take a look at the first post in the "Treo 800w I just held one" thread, you will see the OP says the 800w will have a new proprietary connector. Of course, this is all unofficial/rumor until we hear from Palm themselves.

Will it have the mini USB port?

The Treo 500v has mini USB, so there's always hope!

I know we are all expecting a Sprint launch, but I am hoping there might be a 3G/GSM version released in Europe through Vodafone.

Yeah but the Treo 500v is pretty much an ODM Asus and if I am not mistaken has no ringer switch.

I just ran the gamut of the new phones from Verizon - got an i760, returned it, got an XV6800, returned that, I have a 755p now. I was moving from a 650.

I'll definitely be trying the 800W - I hope it's not NEXT Christmas before it's on Verizon... sigh

[quote=ScaryHumor;1333413]I got a hunch that this is the unit that is being beta tested by some tight lipped (but peeing in their pants) TC'ers.

I can neither confirm nor deny .....

Man, I hate to have another cable to lug around if Palm doesnt use mini USB.

My bag is full of all these proprietary cables!

Well, jrhinehart, if we own a 755p, do you think we'll be happy with an 800w?

You don't have to confirm or deny, but just drop us a hint based on your"hunch". :):)

This would be an awesome feature, but probably won't be ready until the next Treo after 800

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9672038-1.html?tag=blog.1

The Drucker

Boy genius report shows a Vodafone roadmap, were a HSDPA GPS Wi-Fi Palm "drucker" is expected July 2008. (with WinMo Pro)

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/05/vodafone-roadmap-palm-drucker/

Also a Palm "Wanda"is expected later (with WinMo Standard)

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/06/the-vodafone-windows-mobile-roadmap/

[quote=logmein;1394699]Well, jrhinehart, if we own a 755p, do you think we'll be happy with an 800w?

You don't have to confirm or deny, but just drop us a hint based on your"hunch". :):)

I can say that I am excited and the release can't come fast enough.

Any updates on when the 800w might be released?

I really like my HTC Touch but am really missing the keyboard and added usability of my old 700w.

The Treo 800w (from Sprint) will have a mini-USB plug on the bottom of the device. It's about as thin as a Centro, and actually feels quite nice in the hand. It will ship with WinMo 6, and will be compatible with WinMo 6.1 once an update is released. Not a whole lot of feature upgrades, but does make it compatible with Microsoft System Center Mobile Device Manager 2008.
Along with the classic on/off switch for the ringer, there is a convenient WiFi on/off button. I tried the camera out, and at 2.0mp, it took decent pictures, though I didn't have a chance to upload them to my PC to look over. It also comes standard with an EvDO Rev. A radio, bluetooth 2.0 +EDR, and 802.11g WiFi.

I for one am looking forward to this device, even though it won't support the High Performance Push-to-Talk service that Sprint will be launching in the Spring of 2009.

This device is slated to be released in April of this year.

ummmm you know this from..........

I don't know who he is but I'll say that I believe it. The guys at JKOnTheRun complained that while they were at CES, Palm offered them early info on a new device, but they refused because the NDA was for three months. That fits perfectly with April.

Hey Anonuser, any other info? How much memory? Any info on the GPS? MiniSD or microSD?

Thanks.

I don't know who he is but I'll say that I believe it. The guys at JKOnTheRun complained that while they were at CES, Palm offered them early info on a new device, but they refused because the NDA was for three months. That fits perfectly with April.

That's interesting news too and I have to agree, nothing that anonuser said was particularly crazy or out of line of what to expect from such a device...

This device is slated to be released in April of this year.

http://www.ctiawireless.com/ is a link to the CTIA convention in Las Vegas April 2008. An article from phonenews said "It (the 800w) should ship before CTIA… averting mobs of press questions as to why CDMA still lacks a Windows Mobile 6 Treo."
I'm staying with Verizon esp. after Sprint's recent crisis, so if it takes to Apr + 3 months, that's fine.....I don't have a choice anyhow....unless Sprint and VZW get to release it simultaneously. Anyone know whether such a simultaneous release has happened to a smartphone before? Best I recall Sprint has been 3 months ahead all along.....
Roger

[url]
I'm staying with Verizon esp. after Sprint's recent crisis, so if it takes to Apr + 3 months, that's fine.....I don't have a choice anyhow....unless Sprint and VZW get to release it simultaneously. Anyone know whether such a simultaneous release has happened to a smartphone before? Best I recall Sprint has been 3 months ahead all along.....
Roger

Hard to say. Whether the new Sprint's management want to exclusively launch the Treo 800w is an unknown. I believe Palm will take pre-caution step to monitor the current market situation. Since the Centro is selling good. Maybe other GSM telco will bid for the exclusive. GSM is good for Palm, as it is the world standard except Japan and Korea. Personally, I hope Palm will launch Treo 800w globally without exclusive offer to any telcos.

Yeah, I don't think Sprint is long for this world. You don't lose 600k+ subscribers in 1 quarter and last.

Im not saying what he said was wrong, just hard to believe cuz it is what this device should be.

Yeah, I don't think Sprint is long for this world. You don't lose 600k+ subscribers in 1 quarter and last.

I like your user name: tree-i-ee-i--o!!!! Anyhow, they gained about half a million business subscribers so its a net loss of less than a couple hundred thousand.....
Roger

DrRoger...where did you see this information?

Also, I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to carry a Treo so the user name might soon be up for grabs!

That's interesting news too and I have to agree, nothing that anonuser said was particularly crazy or out of line of what to expect from such a device...

Well the only thing that could be out of line is the fact he or she is saying that Sprint's HPPTT will be launched in the spring of 2009!?!?

The FCC already has a Samsung phone with Rev A and HPPTT and most reliable sources including internal Sprint sources have pointed to spring 2008 not spring 2009 so it sounds like about 20% is credible, 50% is repeating previous rumors, and 30% of it is not so credible.

I talk to a Sprint lady at the mall this weekend and she said the 800w is delayed but a few months. I guess thats why its 1st quarter.

So I think the 800w is coming.

http://www.ctiawireless.com/ is a link to the CTIA convention in Las Vegas April 2008. An article from phonenews said "It (the 800w) should ship before CTIA� averting mobs of press questions as to why CDMA still lacks a Windows Mobile 6 Treo."
I'm staying with Verizon esp. after Sprint's recent crisis, so if it takes to Apr + 3 months, that's fine.....I don't have a choice anyhow....unless Sprint and VZW get to release it simultaneously. Anyone know whether such a simultaneous release has happened to a smartphone before? Best I recall Sprint has been 3 months ahead all along.....
Roger

Wasn't everyone waiting on Sprint to launch the 700p and Sprint was going to have exclusivity for a period before VZW got it b/c VZW got the 700w first - and then the 700p actually came out on VZW first?? If I remember correctly, the 700p hit both carriers about the same time.

someone on sprintusers is claiming April now also.

Would not be surprised if Sprint gets the 800w first then around August VZW gets the 800wx with some of the issues fixed.

Wasn't everyone waiting on Sprint to launch the 700p and Sprint was going to have exclusivity for a period before VZW got it b/c VZW got the 700w first - and then the 700p actually came out on VZW first?? If I remember correctly, the 700p hit both carriers about the same time.

Wasn't the 700P just launched on VZW after it had been out on Sprint for months?

No, that was the 755p and that had something to do with not passing VZW certification.

The Treo 800w (from Sprint) will have a mini-USB plug on the bottom of the device. It's about as thin as a Centro, and actually feels quite nice in the hand. It will ship with WinMo 6, and will be compatible with WinMo 6.1 once an update is released. Not a whole lot of feature upgrades, but does make it compatible with Microsoft System Center Mobile Device Manager 2008.
Along with the classic on/off switch for the ringer, there is a convenient WiFi on/off button. I tried the camera out, and at 2.0mp, it took decent pictures, though I didn't have a chance to upload them to my PC to look over. It also comes standard with an EvDO Rev. A radio, bluetooth 2.0 +EDR, and 802.11g WiFi.

I for one am looking forward to this device, even though it won't support the High Performance Push-to-Talk service that Sprint will be launching in the Spring of 2009.

This device is slated to be released in April of this year.

If it doesn't support Microsoft SYNC, Palm/Microsoft is making a big mistake.

The Treo 800w (from Sprint) will have a mini-USB plug on the bottom of the device. It's about as thin as a Centro, and actually feels quite nice in the hand. It will ship with WinMo 6, and will be compatible with WinMo 6.1 once an update is released. Not a whole lot of feature upgrades, but does make it compatible with Microsoft System Center Mobile Device Manager 2008.
Along with the classic on/off switch for the ringer, there is a convenient WiFi on/off button. I tried the camera out, and at 2.0mp, it took decent pictures, though I didn't have a chance to upload them to my PC to look over. It also comes standard with an EvDO Rev. A radio, bluetooth 2.0 +EDR, and 802.11g WiFi.

I for one am looking forward to this device, even though it won't support the High Performance Push-to-Talk service that Sprint will be launching in the Spring of 2009.

This device is slated to be released in April of this year.

Did you forget to mention GPS or are you saying there is no GPS? Not sure I'll get a reply, or how much I believe the post, but I gotta ask. No GPS would be disappointing.

chong67,

Every time I see your avatar, I get hungry... and I just had lunch!
:o

The Treo 800W will have GPSa on it for location-based services. Regarding the HPPTT, I'm only reporting what I was told by an inside source at Sprint. I too was expecting Spring of 2008 for the launch, and have been patiently waiting for a year to upgrade, however, I was just recently told to expect yet another year of waiting...

The first Palm device to support HPPTT will not be released until Spring of 2009, which should be the newer revision of the Treo 800W, unless they incorporate the feature on their new OS device which will launch in Q1 of 2009.

The Treo 800W has MicroSD and 256MB memory. I believe there is another 128MB for something else, but I can't remember what the document said.

Oh, and there's no more headphone jack on the device, you'll have to utilize the mini-usb plug with an adapter, or use bluetooth wireless.

The Treo 800W will have GPSa on it for location-based services.

So can I use Tomtom Navigator 6 with this?

Oh, and there's no more headphone jack on the device, you'll have to utilize the mini-usb plug with an adapter, or use bluetooth wireless.

That's absolutely ridiculous! (imho) I use my headphone jack on the 700wx quite often, especially while in airports/airplanes.

Perhaps they're moving to the HTC's mini-usb/audio connector? That would be *very* interesting.

Sure sounds like it. Some-one said HTC is not acting like the giant they are, but pushing their own connector to get peripheral revenue is a pretty bold move. Getting another brand name on board is a pretty big win for them.

Surur

Oh, and there's no more headphone jack on the device, you'll have to utilize the mini-usb plug with an adapter, or use bluetooth wireless.

I hate this idea and yet totally understand it.

If you want smaller, thinner and yet more "feature packed" devices folks, you have to make cuts somewhere :p Headphone jacks, while convenient, are quickly being replaced with a2dp devices and once you try those, you rarely go back to a wired-setup.

If they did adopt HTC's connector, it probably has less to do with it being a great solution as opposed to just a way-out for Palm to save space and totally remove the jack.

Going with that thought, I wonder if IR also got on the chopping block?

I dunno, GPS, Wifi, thinner and more power in exchange for giving up a headphone jack? I can live with that, lol.

thread moved by mistake - now returned to its rightful place, but it does look like the original title might be list to the misty mists of time. If somebody remembers the original title, I can switch it back.

Sorry!

If they're removing the 2.5mm headset jack I say good riddance. the jack was weak on my T650, and no longer works. I tried an adapter from the Athena connector to 3.5mm for heaphones, but it wouldn't stay in place.

if the Mini-USB can replace the athena connector then I'm all set. one connector for digi-cam, phone, etc. that's what I'm looking for.

but like Mal said; I've gone A2DP and I won't look back... i won't be missing the lost headset jack.

but like Mal said; I've gone A2DP and I won't look back... i won't be missing the lost headset jack.

Except on a plane, when using a bluetooth headset would be frowned upon, if not forbidden entirely, which would make for a pretty boring flight if you had planned to listen to music or watch movies on your PPC.

I'm an A2DP convert as well, but it's always nice to have that backup option, even if it's just a bit kludgy.

Same goes for IR, which allows me the use of my Belkin IR folding keyboard on a plane if needed. I sort of hope that one stays.

Ive been hoping a move to mini usb would come true.

Except on a plane, when using a bluetooth headset would be frowned upon, if not forbidden entirely, which would make for a pretty boring flight if you had planned to listen to music or watch movies on your PPC.

I'm an A2DP convert as well, but it's always nice to have that backup option, even if it's just a bit kludgy.

Same goes for IR, which allows me the use of my Belkin IR folding keyboard on a plane if needed. I sort of hope that one stays.

I'm away from home at least three weeks out of the month on business.. and I ALWAYS use my Moto S9 with my 700wx on the plane. Most flight attendents this day care only about seeing you listen to the safety info... then they could care less.

Thank GOD flight mode does not disable Bluetooth.

More Treo 800w Details Surface?

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