Treo 750 to WM6: 2008 now? Update: Probably not

I'm sorry if I come across as sour but this cat and mouse game Palm and Microsoft is playing with the release of WM6 is getting boring. The "top-secret" approach is so stupid.

Why can't they just come out and say, "We've put it off until next year." or "If everything falls into place WM6 will be release Nov. 1, 2007" If there's an unexpectant delay, tell us that and I'm sure everyone (or most) will understand. But to hang WM6 on a stick like a carrot is dumb.

All the games Palm and MS are playing starts to make the Blackberry appealling.

(excuse the double post but this is likely the more appropriate location for this)

Don't think you can really point the blame at Palm and Microsoft as WM6 upgrades for the 750 have already been released for other carriers, seems to be AT&T who are responsible for the delay ;)

From what I've read MSCDM 2008 requires Windows Mobile 6.1, which of course isn't out yet, so I'd be surprised if AT&T skipped 6.0 completely.

I, for one, am completely satisfied with the XDA WM6 on my unlocked 750!! It's only about a million times better [brisk/snappier, stable, longer battery life, HSDPA out of the box... et all] compared to WM5 :)

I'm sorry if I come across as sour but this cat and mouse game Palm and Microsoft is playing with the release of WM6 is getting boring. The "top-secret" approach is so stupid. Why can't they just come out and say, "We've put it off until next year." or "If everything falls into place WM6 will be release Nov. 1, 2007" If there's an unexpectant delay, tell us that and I'm sure everyone (or most) will understand. But to hang WM6 on a stick like a carrot is dumb. All the games Palm and MS are playing starts to make the Blackberry appealling. (excuse the double post but this is likely the more appropriate location for this)

Again, how is this a Palm issue if they have released the update in other countries? Shouldn't you be aiming your frustration at AT&T?

Aiming my frustrations at AT&T? Can they release an operating system themselves? I guess if they develop it in-house but the upgrade is a product of Palm and MS.

Regardless who is to blame, someone should have the backbone to step up to the plate and tell the consumers what's going on.

Note the update to the main article, which I personally believe. Real Soon Now (tm).

I, for one, am completely satisfied with the XDA WM6 on my unlocked 750!! It's only about a million times better [brisk/snappier, stable, longer battery life, HSDPA out of the box... et all] compared to WM5 :)

I'm with you. I can't believe the AT&T release will be better to the point of even noticing. If it weren't for the XDA release, I might have tried another phone by now. If nothing else, it saved me a few bucks.

"Well look at this: the AT&T booth has a flyer for the Treo 750 that claims that HSDPA and Windows Mobile 6 will be available in 2007. Prying about doesn't really yield anything substantial except some winks, nods, and hints that it's coming very soon."

Why the winks, nods and hints? Can't AT&T commit to something? How about Palm or MS? When do we get something substantial?

Aiming my frustrations at AT&T? Can they release an operating system themselves? I guess if they develop it in-house but the upgrade is a product of Palm and MS. Regardless who is to blame, someone should have the backbone to step up to the plate and tell the consumers what's going on.

But Palm HAS released WM6 for the Treo. They are not under any obligation to consult with the lunatic fringe about their plans. It's crazy to me that people are upset with Palm because they haven't revealed corporate information to the consuming public over an opertaing system upgrade. When was the last time Apple or Microsoft offered a free operating system upgrade? Yet Palm gets bashed for providing one later that some customers feel it should have been. It's absurd......

But Palm HAS released WM6 for the Treo. They are not under any obligation to consult with the lunatic fringe about their plans. It's crazy to me that people are upset with Palm because they haven't revealed corporate information to the consuming public over an opertaing system upgrade. When was the last time Apple or Microsoft offered a free operating system upgrade? Yet Palm gets bashed for providing one later that some customers feel it should have been. It's absurd......

Your absurd....

Lunatic fringe? The moderators wouldn't appreciate my first thoughts on that statement. But, why is it so unreasonable for consumers to expect information on product releases from the manufacturers?

I'm not asking for trade secrets or sacred corporate information but rather PRODUCT information. I choose the Treo 750 for two reasons, I was unhappy with Palm OS and WM6. Palm, ATT and MS have no problem promoting the sale of the 750 with the opportunity to upgrade to WM6 so why can't someone offer PRODUCT information such as a release date?

I'm not bashing these manufacturers because WM6 hasn't been released as I felt it should have been. I'm bashing them for not offering more PRODUCT information as to when WM6 will be released.

If they came out tomorrow and said WM6 has a target release date of October 1, 2008 I'd be fine with that. If on September 1, 2008 they realized that there was a bug in the upgrade and announced a delay of 30 days, I'd be fine with that too. What drives me crazy is the half-wits that leak information, vague statements from Company support and sales reps, and constantly seeing "rumored" release dates come and go with no product.

If this environment is fine with you, great. It's just getting a little old in my book.

All I can say is that February won't come soon enough. It's time for Palm to put up or shut up, literally. And all this WM talk aside, where's the Linux? Coy responses and tactic snickers are boring. Get on with putting software in users hands or don't waste our time. I have heard so many promises of good things to come from Palm and I'm not feeling the love. Apple... can't you make February come sooner?? ;)

Re the carrier being to blame - its of note that the WM6 update for the Samsung Blackjack has also been delayed, despite being available for its twin model overseas. I think it is fair to direct more ire at AT&T than either Palm or Microsoft, as they seem to be the common factor.

Surur

I don't think you're completely right on this one, if AT&T was the problem, why isn't the unbranded 750 available with WM6 yet? I mean, that model is not depending on any provider whatsoever and still has no (official) WM6 upgrade avaiable...

Furthermore I agree with coppertop, Palm should be able to pinpoint a specific date. And I don't care what the date is, as long as there ís one. Don't keep everyone in the dark, just be clear. Microsoft can do that, so why can't Palm?

Your absurd.... Lunatic fringe? The moderators wouldn't appreciate my first thoughts on that statement. But, why is it so unreasonable for consumers to expect information on product releases from the manufacturers? I'm not asking for trade secrets or sacred corporate information but rather PRODUCT information. I choose the Treo 750 for two reasons, I was unhappy with Palm OS and WM6. Palm, ATT and MS have no problem promoting the sale of the 750 with the opportunity to upgrade to WM6 so why can't someone offer PRODUCT information such as a release date? I'm not bashing these manufacturers because WM6 hasn't been released as I felt it should have been. I'm bashing them for not offering more PRODUCT information as to when WM6 will be released. If they came out tomorrow and said WM6 has a target release date of October 1, 2008 I'd be fine with that. If on September 1, 2008 they realized that there was a bug in the upgrade and announced a delay of 30 days, I'd be fine with that too. What drives me crazy is the half-wits that leak information, vague statements from Company support and sales reps, and constantly seeing "rumored" release dates come and go with no product. If this environment is fine with you, great. It's just getting a little old in my book.

How does your life significantly improve if Palm announces a release date of 10/1/08, then delays it 30 days? Will it affect your vacation plans? Those that choose to believe rumors and unsubstantiated information are certainly subjecting themselves to all this angst. I hope it's worth it to you.

If you're that unhappy with Palm, then go buy a Blackberry, man.

I don't think you're completely right on this one, if AT&T was the problem, why isn't the unbranded 750 available with WM6 yet? I mean, that model is not depending on any provider whatsoever and still has no (official) WM6 upgrade avaiable... Furthermore I agree with coppertop, Palm should be able to pinpoint a specific date. And I don't care what the date is, as long as there ís one. Don't keep everyone in the dark, just be clear. Microsoft can do that, so why can't Palm?

FWIW:

Rogers here in Canada is shipping the Treo 750 WITH Windows Mobile 6! :mad:

So I suspect it is an issue with AT&T and not Palm nor Microsoft.

Unfortunately I can't get anyone to extract their Rogers Treo 750 ROM so we can try it.

aparently the AT&T 750 wm6 update has been leaked i can search and find like 15 torrents for it. If this is true then maybe we can find a way to make it work on the 700wx as well that would be slick.

ToonFan,

Do you work for Palm or something, because you sure did just jump right into this thread and start bashing away at the rest of us. Granted everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but for you to minimize our issues, regardless of who its directed it, is not cool.

I for one have been in contact with SEVERAL senior support reps with both AT&T AND Palm, and even the Palm reps have told me THEY are still working with AT&T to get the ROM ready, but the ROM is in their hands, not AT&T. If and When the ROM is released, it will be available on PALMS website, not AT&T. AT&T will LINK to the PALM site. AT&T is not a software company, they don't develop Operating Systems, they don't develop software. The Device is a Palm device, not an AT&T device. (Technically it's an HTC, but that is neither here nor there)

Is it possible that AT&T has requested Palm withold the update for the Cingular/AT&T branded Treos? Yes, I will give you that much, it is highly possible, however this does not explain the delay in the update for unbranded Treo 750s.

Palm has a history of making announcments about software updates for their devices and then dragging it out forever before a release is made. Also you assume that no one is upset with AT&T, dont make assumptions, all it does is make you look like, well, you know the phrase. I am upset with AT&T as well, as most of these people are as well. It clearly states on their product website for the Treo 750, UPGRADEABLE TO HSDPA IN 2007. I was sold on this phone in store for that exact reason. I was told, in store when I bought it back in March that the upgrade would be available by July. July came and went, then it was August 15th, then September 17th, then October 12th, then October 15th, then October 21st/22nd. Now its, hurry up and wait again. I got these dates from either a Palm rep or an AT&T rep, depending on who I called first that day. That is piss poor customer service. I work for a large software company, and if we did that to our customers, I wouldn't have a job. We give a release date, and we hit that date. If we are going to miss it due to a bug with an enhancement or a regression, we let the customers know that.

Should we be getting ourselves all upset over a "free" update. Probably not, not if we are not paying for it. By all rights, Microsoft and or Palm and their partner carriers could arguably charge for the update, but they don't. That however does not mean we should lay back and take poor customer service without the ability to voice our opinions and frustration without some moron coming in and bashing us for voicing our thoughts, feelings, concerns, frustrations etc.

How does your life significantly improve if Palm announces a release date of 10/1/08, then delays it 30 days? Will it affect your vacation plans? Those that choose to believe rumors and unsubstantiated information are certainly subjecting themselves to all this angst. I hope it's worth it to you. If you're that unhappy with Palm, then go buy a Blackberry, man.

How does my life significantly improve? It gives me a time table; it tells me to be patient regardless of what is released in the meantime; it tells me that Palm isn't playing games with the consumer.

And if they did announce a release date, only to move it back, I won't loose a wink of sleep. Apparently the concept of informing customers of product information is too hard for you to grasp as well.

Is it so difficult to understand that those of us who'd like to see WM6, who are pleased with the Treo would like a little more information from the manufacturer beyond "we're working on it"?

It's not just the release of WM6 but it's also with other products from Palm and it's partners. Remember all the garbage that went on with the release of the 680?

Toon, you like asking questions so here's a few for you. Why shouldn't Palm offer consumers more concrete product information? Why shouldn't they give us a target date for WM6 release? Why is it acceptable to offer vague statements regarding the release, keeping consumers guessing and frustrated?

ToonFan, Do you work for Palm or something, because you sure did just jump right into this thread and start bashing away at the rest of us. Granted everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but for you to minimize our issues, regardless of who its directed it, is not cool. I for one have been in contact with SEVERAL senior support reps with both AT&T AND Palm, and even the Palm reps have told me THEY are still working with AT&T to get the ROM ready, but the ROM is in their hands, not AT&T. If and When the ROM is released, it will be available on PALMS website, not AT&T. AT&T will LINK to the PALM site. AT&T is not a software company, they don't develop Operating Systems, they don't develop software. The Device is a Palm device, not an AT&T device. (Technically it's an HTC, but that is neither here nor there) Is it possible that AT&T has requested Palm withold the update for the Cingular/AT&T branded Treos? Yes, I will give you that much, it is highly possible, however this does not explain the delay in the update for unbranded Treo 750s. Palm has a history of making announcments about software updates for their devices and then dragging it out forever before a release is made. Also you assume that no one is upset with AT&T, dont make assumptions, all it does is make you look like, well, you know the phrase. I am upset with AT&T as well, as most of these people are as well. It clearly states on their product website for the Treo 750, UPGRADEABLE TO HSDPA IN 2007. I was sold on this phone in store for that exact reason. I was told, in store when I bought it back in March that the upgrade would be available by July. July came and went, then it was August 15th, then September 17th, then October 12th, then October 15th, then October 21st/22nd. Now its, hurry up and wait again. I got these dates from either a Palm rep or an AT&T rep, depending on who I called first that day. That is piss poor customer service. I work for a large software company, and if we did that to our customers, I wouldn't have a job. We give a release date, and we hit that date. If we are going to miss it due to a bug with an enhancement or a regression, we let the customers know that. Should we be getting ourselves all upset over a "free" update. Probably not, not if we are not paying for it. By all rights, Microsoft and or Palm and their partner carriers could arguably charge for the update, but they don't. That however does not mean we should lay back and take poor customer service without the ability to voice our opinions and frustration without some moron coming in and bashing us for voicing our thoughts, feelings, concerns, frustrations etc.

I own a 750. Been a Treo owner since the original. WM5 works fine, but I'd like the improvements on WM6. I check TC every day waiting for the update. I run a relatively successful consumer products company. I have announced product release dates, and taken the wrath of consumers who were all geared up for their product on that day, only to have us experience delays beyond our control. We were always sorry to have put a date on it. Poor customer service is telling your customers something will happen on a certain date, and not delivering.

I read these comments that "Palm must do this", and "Palm must tell us that". There are some here that feel incredibly entitled, when Palm doesn't have any obligation to put an exact release date on an upgrade. In a perfect world, Palm would say the update is coming on a certain date, and would release it. But we do not live in a perfect world. Trust me when I tell you that Palm doesn't gain anything by waiting to release it. And they don't gain anything by releasing it if it isn't quite ready. Imagine this forum if Palm released a WM6 upgrade that had bugs and rendered our Treos useless......

I jumped in because some comments seem incredibly impatient and unfair, and the comments directed at Palm are harsh. There are leaked versions of WM6 floating around. If some people are so desperate for it, it's available. Download it, install, it, and get on with your lives. Or wait until Palm releases the ATT&T version. We thought WM5 was perfectly fine when we bought our Treo's. Sure, from all accounts WM6 works better, but it's not like WM5 is an original DOS operating system.

Given the human tragedy and serious world events happening every day, being this upset over a smartphone operating system upgrade is really shallow. I doubt anyone in proximity of the San Diego area is worried about Palm making a free WM6 upgrade available on a specific date when their home is about to go up in flames.

How does my life significantly improve? It gives me a time table; it tells me to be patient regardless of what is released in the meantime; it tells me that Palm isn't playing games with the consumer. And if they did announce a release date, only to move it back, I won't loose a wink of sleep. Apparently the concept of informing customers of product information is too hard for you to grasp as well. Is it so difficult to understand that those of us who'd like to see WM6, who are pleased with the Treo would like a little more information from the manufacturer beyond "we're working on it"? It's not just the release of WM6 but it's also with other products from Palm and it's partners. Remember all the garbage that went on with the release of the 680? Toon, you like asking questions so here's a few for you. Why shouldn't Palm offer consumers more concrete product information? Why shouldn't they give us a target date for WM6 release? Why is it acceptable to offer vague statements regarding the release, keeping consumers guessing and frustrated?

So you can be patient if you get a release date, but you can't be patient if they say "coming soon"? Then we live in different worlds, because that makes no sense.

I didn't get caught up in the 680 "garbage". I bought one when when it was released, because I couldn't before that. I don't have the time or energy to get so emotional over vaporware.

I don't have answers because those are questions I would never ask.

Yes, I wish the WM6 upgrade was released weeks ago, and that we all had it on our Treo devices. But it isn't. When the upgrade is announced, I'll install it. Until then, there are lots of other things I can worry about.

I for one have been in contact with SEVERAL senior support reps with both AT&T AND Palm, and even the Palm reps have told me THEY are still working with AT&T to get the ROM ready, but the ROM is in their hands, not AT&T.

With your insider knowledge, what is being included in this 'special' AT&T version of WM6 for the Treo 750 that isn't already available from any of the multitude of Palm WM6 versions readily available?

Is it possible that AT&T has requested Palm withold the update for the Cingular/AT&T branded Treos? Yes, I will give you that much, it is highly possible

Why would it be in AT&T's interest for them to instruct Palm to withhold the update when Palm has released WM6 to most every other carrier? Market manipulation?

I was told, in store when I bought it back in March that the upgrade would be available by July. July came and went, then it was August 15th, then September 17th, then October 12th, then October 15th, then October 21st/22nd.

Getting your info from the same contact point(s) within each org? How long have you been receiving this insider info?

With your insider knowledge, what is being included in this 'special' AT&T version of WM6 for the Treo 750 that isn't already available from any of the multitude of Palm WM6 versions readily available?

I wouldn't call it "insider knowledge" so much as I simply complain until I get transferred to someone who is not reading off of a script. Even AT&T has multiple levels of support. As far as what’s included in the 'special' AT&T Version, I have been told the same things that others have, and is available on other public forums. HSDPA, CV, AT&T Mall, AT&T Music, TeleNav and MobiTV Install applications, and an upgrade to the phone controls. Whether or not there is any difference between this build and the dozens of leaked versions I do not know. I for one don't want a $500.00 paperweight because I bricked my phone. I know there is a fairly stable leaked AT&T Beta ROM out, and have heard fairly good things about it.

Why would it be in AT&T's interest for them to instruct Palm to withhold the update when Palm has released WM6 to most every other carrier? Market manipulation?

I don't think it would be in their best interest to instruct Palm to withhold it. That was simply speculation, not implication. Let me put it this way... IF AT&T has instructed Palm to withhold the update, it is not going to be for market manipulation. I have stated elsewhere that AT&T has started launching the second half of their HSPA data package, HSUPA, and that this could be cause for the delay. I believe the current version of HSDPA for the WM6 build for Treo is 1.8, and I am not versed enough in the new 3.5G technology to know if that build includes full HSUPA functionality, perhaps someone with more experience can verify.

Getting your info from the same contact point(s) within each org? How long have you been receiving this insider info?

When July came around I went to my local store and made the initial inquiry about the update. They told me that it had been pushed back to August, and to call Customer Service for a new release date. I called and spoke with a rep on Aug 1st, and was told the update would be posted to the Palm website on or about the 15th of August. I started checking the 15th, 16th and 17th before I called Palm for an update. (Since it was supposed to be posted to their site) The Palm rep told me that the release had been delayed and that a 'target' date of Sept. 17th had been set. Sept. 17th passed with not word one from Palm or AT&T. I called Palm, who told me to call AT&T, who told me to call Palm. I asked for someone higher up the pecking order until I got a 'senior support rep' (his words not mine) that said the official release dates were as follows, Oct. 12th for the 750, 15th for the BJ and 20th for the 8525. Oct. 12th came and went and I called again, was told to speak to Palm. I called Palm who said they were to receive the go ahead the 15th and it should be available no later than the 21st/22nd of October. Its not insider information, if you ask enough you get some kind of answer, even if its just something to shut you up. On Monday I contacted the AT&T senior rep via email, and this is what his email reply was to me.

"Brian,

I talked to the reps from Palm today; they stated an upgrade will be out in about 30 days or so. You might still want to check other sources for the info, but I’m sure that the guy I talked too knows what he was talking about.



Wayne Christian"

I was asked to not publicly post his email address, but if anyone would like it PM me and I will provide it to you, as long as it is not posted publicly.


I am not "angry" or putting my life on hold over this. I am disappointed that I have had empty promises made to me on a continual basis by both Palm and AT&T. As I stated in an earlier post, the main reason I chose the Treo was the promise of HSDPA and WM6. I knew coming into it that WM5 was buggy; I had an 8125 prior to this and couldn't stand it because of the WM5 bugs.

The really sad thing about all of this is that if and when we do get the official ROM, when word leaks about an "update" for that, we will probably all start chomping at the bit for that as well, because most technophiles always want the latest and greatest.

I wouldn't call it "insider knowledge" so much as I simply complain until I get transferred to someone who is not reading off of a script. Even AT&T has multiple levels of support. As far as what’s included in the 'special' AT&T Version, I have been told the same things that others have, and is available on other public forums. HSDPA, CV, AT&T Mall, AT&T Music, TeleNav and MobiTV Install applications, and an upgrade to the phone controls. Whether or not there is any difference between this build and the dozens of leaked versions I do not know. I for one don't want a $500.00 paperweight because I bricked my phone. I know there is a fairly stable leaked AT&T Beta ROM out, and have heard fairly good things about it. I don't think it would be in their best interest to instruct Palm to withhold it. That was simply speculation, not implication. Let me put it this way... IF AT&T has instructed Palm to withhold the update, it is not going to be for market manipulation. I have stated elsewhere that AT&T has started launching the second half of their HSPA data package, HSUPA, and that this could be cause for the delay. I believe the current version of HSDPA for the WM6 build for Treo is 1.8, and I am not versed enough in the new 3.5G technology to know if that build includes full HSUPA functionality, perhaps someone with more experience can verify. When July came around I went to my local store and made the initial inquiry about the update. They told me that it had been pushed back to August, and to call Customer Service for a new release date. I called and spoke with a rep on Aug 1st, and was told the update would be posted to the Palm website on or about the 15th of August. I started checking the 15th, 16th and 17th before I called Palm for an update. (Since it was supposed to be posted to their site) The Palm rep told me that the release had been delayed and that a 'target' date of Sept. 17th had been set. Sept. 17th passed with not word one from Palm or AT&T. I called Palm, who told me to call AT&T, who told me to call Palm. I asked for someone higher up the pecking order until I got a 'senior support rep' (his words not mine) that said the official release dates were as follows, Oct. 12th for the 750, 15th for the BJ and 20th for the 8525. Oct. 12th came and went and I called again, was told to speak to Palm. I called Palm who said they were to receive the go ahead the 15th and it should be available no later than the 21st/22nd of October. Its not insider information, if you ask enough you get some kind of answer, even if its just something to shut you up. On Monday I contacted the AT&T senior rep via email, and this is what his email reply was to me. "Brian, I talked to the reps from Palm today; they stated an upgrade will be out in about 30 days or so. You might still want to check other sources for the info, but I’m sure that the guy I talked too knows what he was talking about. Wayne Christian" I was asked to not publicly post his email address, but if anyone would like it PM me and I will provide it to you, as long as it is not posted publicly. I am not "angry" or putting my life on hold over this. I am disappointed that I have had empty promises made to me on a continual basis by both Palm and AT&T. As I stated in an earlier post, the main reason I chose the Treo was the promise of HSDPA and WM6. I knew coming into it that WM5 was buggy; I had an 8125 prior to this and couldn't stand it because of the WM5 bugs. The really sad thing about all of this is that if and when we do get the official ROM, when word leaks about an "update" for that, we will probably all start chomping at the bit for that as well, because most technophiles always want the latest and greatest.

And coppertop wants to know why I don't think Palm should put release dates out there?????

There is a huge difference between just throwing a date out there to shut someone up and an official announcment. If you do not want to give a date, then tell your reps to simply say that the information is not currently available. Dont tell them to give dates just so they can move on to the next call. I would rather have honesty than dishonesty.

There is a huge difference between just throwing a date out there to shut someone up and an official announcment. If you do not want to give a date, then tell your reps to simply say that the information is not currently available. Dont tell them to give dates just so they can move on to the next call. I would rather have honesty than dishonesty.

And there is a huge difference between Palm telling their reps to give a date, and some guy on the phone or behind a desk just trying to be helpful. The fact is, we don't know that Palm specifically told their reps to give dates in order to shut anyone up. That is simply conjecture and speculation. Do phone reps want to get to the next call? Yes. Ever been in a high volume call center and seen the pressure to get to the next customer?

And there is a huge difference between Palm telling their reps to give a date, and some guy on the phone or behind a desk just trying to be helpful. The fact is, we don't know that Palm specifically told their reps to give dates in order to shut anyone up. That is simply conjecture and speculation. Do phone reps want to get to the next call? Yes. Ever been in a high volume call center and seen the pressure to get to the next customer?

Actually yes I have Toonfan, prior to becoming a Release Analyst I did support for the very software I now work on. We develop Tax software, and between September and April the following year, the phones on the support side rang non-stop. (This is a dual call center, with the reps taking both software AND system support calls.) On a slow day we would handle upwards of 2500+ calls a day, during prime tax season that number triples, and at best you can hope for 100 to 150 reps on the phones 10 hours a day. (During prime season) Aside from questions about Tax support, the second most asked question was "When is your next build or release coming out?" I never once just gave some random date to appease the customer. I think that many CS reps forget what they would feel like if the roles were reversed. As I have previously stated, I'm not angry, just disapointed. I have been in the shoes of a Rep, and in the shoes of the consumer. Not once did our Company tell us to make up dates. We were given a release schedule for every product, and if there was going to be a change to that, we let the custoemrs know, whether it was via an email push, notice on the web site or when they called in. I guess thats what I am used to, so that's what I expect.

So you can be patient if you get a release date, but you can't be patient if they say "coming soon"? Then we live in different worlds, because that makes no sense. I don't have answers because those are questions I would never ask.

I guess we do live in different worlds. "Coming Soon" can mean tomorrow or any day beyond that. I guess I'm looking for something along the lines of what Bellington mentioned, honesty. An honest statement about when a product is going to be released.

Not having the answers because the questions aren't ones you'd never ask only ducks the issue and I'll have to remember it the next time my wife and I debate an issue. It's obvious you aren't shy about expressing your opinion so why not express it directly to the questions I asked? Surely it's not because it's not unreasonable to ask for or expect PRODUCT information (such as release dates) from manufacturers.

I guess we do live in different worlds. "Coming Soon" can mean tomorrow or any day beyond that. I guess I'm looking for something along the lines of what Bellington mentioned, honesty. An honest statement about when a product is going to be released. Not having the answers because the questions aren't ones you'd never ask only ducks the issue and I'll have to remember it the next time my wife and I debate an issue. It's obvious you aren't shy about expressing your opinion so why not express it directly to the questions I asked? Surely it's not because it's not unreasonable to ask for or expect PRODUCT information (such as release dates) from manufacturers.

What is more accuratye than "soon"?

Hate to be accused of "ducking" an issue, so here's my answers to your pressing questions based on my experiences:

1) They do when products are released. Anything earlier just gives your competition an easier time in developing competitve product.

2) If they knew of a definite "target" date, they likely would announce it. Fearing they could not meet it, it makes better sense not to pin it down to a specific date.

3) See #2 above. They are not trying to make you frustrated and guess. These are emotions you bring on yourself because you believe you should be getting something from Palm that they are not obligated to give you.

Actually yes I have Toonfan, prior to becoming a Release Analyst I did support for the very software I now work on. We develop Tax software, and between September and April the following year, the phones on the support side rang non-stop. (This is a dual call center, with the reps taking both software AND system support calls.) On a slow day we would handle upwards of 2500+ calls a day, during prime tax season that number triples, and at best you can hope for 100 to 150 reps on the phones 10 hours a day. (During prime season) Aside from questions about Tax support, the second most asked question was "When is your next build or release coming out?" I never once just gave some random date to appease the customer. I think that many CS reps forget what they would feel like if the roles were reversed. As I have previously stated, I'm not angry, just disapointed. I have been in the shoes of a Rep, and in the shoes of the consumer. Not once did our Company tell us to make up dates. We were given a release schedule for every product, and if there was going to be a change to that, we let the custoemrs know, whether it was via an email push, notice on the web site or when they called in. I guess thats what I am used to, so that's what I expect.

There is absolutely no eveidence that Palm told their reps to make up dates. That is nothing more than speculation on your part. If you choose to believe that, then yes, I can understand why you feel frustrated. But that is a problem for you to deal with. It's not palm's problem. Of course, you'll believe it's Palm's problem, in which case you should exercise your right as a consumer not to buy a Palm product if you feel this strongly about them. Not all companies can please all customers.

God I just love public forums

http://blog.palm.com/palm/2007/10/interview-with-.html

Interview with Joe Fabris on Palm and Microsoft

Continuing from yesterday's news, I sat down for an audio interview to share my thoughts on Microsoft Center Mobile Device Manager 2008 and Palm's relationship with Microsoft in general.

Download palm/files/cf1011_final.mp3

Also, AT&T Treo 750 customers, an update to the WinMo 6 Professional operating system will be available later this year.

-Joe

What is more accuratye than "soon"?

You've got to be kidding me. Let's see.... any specific date is more accurate, any specific week on the calendar, any month on the calendar and any business quarter would be more accurate than "soon".

1) They do when products are released. Anything earlier just gives your competition an easier time in developing competitve product.

Ok. Skip the nuts and bolts but why should the expected release date be kept under lock and key?

2) If they knew of a definite "target" date, they likely would announce it. Fearing they could not meet it, it makes better sense not to pin it down to a specific date.

You don't give the consumers enough credit. I think if the company would give us a target date and then had to extend it, we'd be understanding. I somehow doubt Palm, ATT or MS are working on a "when we get it completed, it will be completed" time frame. I'm sure target dates aren't foriegn to them so why should they be foriegn to us.

3) See #2 above. They are not trying to make you frustrated and guess. These are emotions you bring on yourself because you believe you should be getting something from Palm that they are not obligated to give you.

The emotions are brought about as a reaction. A reaction to the cat and mouse game that ATT, Palm, or MS are playing with consumers. I didn't dream up the idea that WM6 would be available for the 750, that it would be free or that it would be released on Oct. 12th. Palm created the obligation by marketing the 750 with the availability of WM6, announcing it would be free and allowing rumors and "leaks" to go unaddressed.

Regardless of what hollow arguements you throw out, I still think one of the three players (ATT, Palm or MS) should step up to the plate and give consumers an honest statement on the release of WM6. It's poor business practice to allow rumors to steer your marketing department.

You think the world of Palm and choose to follow them blindly.
Great.
More power to you.

Also, AT&T Treo 750 customers, an update to the WinMo 6 Professional operating system will be available later this year. -Joe

Wow.
Another "Coming Soon" prediction.

I guess in Toon's world, this is top-notch accurate information because there's only two more months left in the year.....

I have wm 6 on my 750 was a big improvement over wm5 but I just went to centro with a sero plan and not looking back love this baby and ready to say goodbye to att goodbye 40 dollar data plan goodbye lousy service my whole bill should be about 40 bucks now

Fred

http://blog.palm.com/palm/2007/10/interview-with-.html Interview with Joe Fabris on Palm and Microsoft Continuing from yesterday's news, I sat down for an audio interview to share my thoughts on Microsoft Center Mobile Device Manager 2008 and Palm's relationship with Microsoft in general. Download palm/files/cf1011_final.mp3 Also, AT&T Treo 750 customers, an update to the WinMo 6 Professional operating system will be available later this year. -Joe

So here we go again. Later this year, hopefully it isn't Dec 31st when we see WM6.

BUT why does Rogers have WM6 on there shipping version of the Treo 750? :mad: And AT&T are taking there good o'l time releasing it.

You've got to be kidding me. Let's see.... any specific date is more accurate, any specific week on the calendar, any month on the calendar and any business quarter would be more accurate than "soon". Ok. Skip the nuts and bolts but why should the expected release date be kept under lock and key? You don't give the consumers enough credit. I think if the company would give us a target date and then had to extend it, we'd be understanding. I somehow doubt Palm, ATT or MS are working on a "when we get it completed, it will be completed" time frame. I'm sure target dates aren't foriegn to them so why should they be foriegn to us. The emotions are brought about as a reaction. A reaction to the cat and mouse game that ATT, Palm, or MS are playing with consumers. I didn't dream up the idea that WM6 would be available for the 750, that it would be free or that it would be released on Oct. 12th. Palm created the obligation by marketing the 750 with the availability of WM6, announcing it would be free and allowing rumors and "leaks" to go unaddressed. Regardless of what hollow arguements you throw out, I still think one of the three players (ATT, Palm or MS) should step up to the plate and give consumers an honest statement on the release of WM6. It's poor business practice to allow rumors to steer your marketing department. You think the world of Palm and choose to follow them blindly. Great. More power to you.

Please don't confuse the word "accurate" with "specific". You want specific, and you're not getting it.

The expected release date is not a secret. I'm merely suggesting they don't know what it is. Rather than throw a date out there to keep you happy and run the risk of being wrong. Again, this is common practice for consumer products companies.

There is no chance the people here would be understanding if Palm were to push back release dates. Look how understanding you all are in not getting a release date. Look at the venom directed at Palm in this forum when rumored release dates are not met. What gives you any hope that people here will have any understanding and sympathy? You even hint at a lack of understanding in your post when you chastise Palm for missing the Oct 12 release date.

I don't think the world of Palm. I'm not a Palm suck-up. I think they are an innovative company that builds a nice product. As I stated, I wish it WM6 for ATT&T was available. In that regard, you and I want the same thing. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products, I think your expectations are way over the top.

Can anyone confirm if the AT&T-specific links (AT&T Music / MobiTV / etc) from the leaked ROM are functional or not? You know, the garbage in the extended ROM that most users have extracted out which gives them an additional 9mb of storage space. ;)

Please don't confuse the word "accurate" with "specific". You want specific, and you're not getting it. The expected release date is not a secret. I'm merely suggesting they don't know what it is. Rather than throw a date out there to keep you happy and run the risk of being wrong. Again, this is common practice for consumer products companies. There is no chance the people here would be understanding if Palm were to push back release dates. Look how understanding you all are in not getting a release date. Look at the venom directed at Palm in this forum when rumored release dates are not met. What gives you any hope that people here will have any understanding and sympathy? You even hint at a lack of understanding in your post when you chastise Palm for missing the Oct 12 release date. I don't think the world of Palm. I'm not a Palm suck-up. I think they are an innovative company that builds a nice product. As I stated, I wish it WM6 for ATT&T was available. In that regard, you and I want the same thing. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products, I think your expectations are way over the top.

I'm not chastising Palm for missing the Oct. 12th date, I'm chastising them for keeping the date secret. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products you probably aren't too successful if you sell your customers short by not thinking they will be understanding if a release date is pushed back.

I'd rather have the information, hope for success and be understanding if delays occur. To think we as consumers can't handle it, is demeaning and rude. Had Palm or its partners addressed the rumored dates, the backlash would not have been as intense. Instead, Palm is letting rumors stear thier marketing and there is a lot of false, misleading information out there. As a industry insider, I'm sure you prefer that to the truth.

I guess all this is a moot point in that Palm, ATT or any other player in this game doesn't give a rip what I think. Especially when they have cheerleaders available to defend them.

I'm not chastising Palm for missing the Oct. 12th date, I'm chastising them for keeping the date secret. As someone who is intimately familiar with the development and introduction of consumer products you probably aren't too successful if you sell your customers short by not thinking they will be understanding if a release date is pushed back. I'd rather have the information, hope for success and be understanding if delays occur. To think we as consumers can't handle it, is demeaning and rude. Had Palm or its partners addressed the rumored dates, the backlash would not have been as intense. Instead, Palm is letting rumors stear thier marketing and there is a lot of false, misleading information out there. As a industry insider, I'm sure you prefer that to the truth. I guess all this is a moot point in that Palm, ATT or any other player in this game doesn't give a rip what I think. Especially when they have cheerleaders available to defend them.

Actually, our research strongly indicates that consumers are more pissed off when release dates are announced and missed.

It's not a matter of whether you can handle a release date. You think Palm is intentionally misleading you. There's no reason or benefit for them in doing that. I'm merely suggesting they aren't announcing a date because they may not know what it will be.

You can continue to believe this conspiracy theory that Palm is intentionally keeping you in the dark. I tried to bring a little insight into the process, but it's clear you want to believe that Palm is just screwing with you. I hope you enjoy WM6 whenever it's released.....

Zzzzzzzzzzzz. Let us know when you guys are finished.

finished.

IMHO, I'd rather wait and get an official release. My Treo 750 with WM5 has been working fine. Do I want the latest and greatest? Definitely! But I have to agree with whoever said it way back somewhere in this thread......it's not worth this much worrying. If you're losing sleep, are getting ulcers, have your hair falling out, etc.......load a leaked version and be happy until the official version comes out. I want WM6, but I'll patiently wait for whenever it does come out........even if it's Q2 of 2008.

I know.......I can hear it now......."Can it newbie!"

well, I've downloaded and installed the ROW updater for non-branded 750v's in Europe and it is working well to date. Not only does it provide html email, HSDPA downloads, a speedier user experience and all the other bits'n'bobs but in addition, once a day a pretty, large breasted women turns up to give me a head rub....good on yer Palm

I would just be happy with a fix for the 750 not reading the SD card, that's supposed to come with WM6 so this sort of sucks seeing how I have to eject it and put it back every time I want to use the SD card for a few minutes...

I second that about the sd card. It makes taking spur-of-the-moment pics with my 750 impossible. By the time I pull it and put it back in, whatever
I wanted to shoot is done! Bites!!!

That's odd. I never have that problem. I'm using a sandisk card. What type of cards are you guys using?

That's odd. I never have that problem. I'm using a sandisk card. What type of cards are you guys using?

2GB micro Sandisk card in a Mini Sandisk adapter. As soon as I eject the card and put it back it works fine. No problems with the card in a card reader on my PC and I have formated it and have done two hard resets to the phone all to no avail.

Everything I've read points to software and the WM6 update is "supposed" to take care of this.

wm6 definitely fixed this on my AT&T 750 (leaked rom)